tbol is excellent and im not sure what everyone really expects from it... it can easily put on 10 lbs or more of lean muscle... i have seen a few not do well with what and it leaves me scratching my head because i have not only had my own personal experience but seen so many do so well with it but i look at it like epistane for example.. i have seen some guys just go nuts on epistane, considering their favorite oral over anything and then some who get next to nothing from it.... everyone is different in that regard and you can only tell through your own experience... i have seen guys stack tbol and lgd and get 15 lbs. easy and now that rad is available, that can be added with even more mega results... then you can avoid all the dbol water etc... its really up to you what you do but if you want cleaner type gains this is perfect... if your not responding to tbol then just try something else but its really in a category of its own because there's not many leaner bulking type steroids