New Bloods post PCT - need advice

[Jimbo]

Hi - just got my bloods back 2 months after my last Sarms cycle and they have not changed that much

To recap I ran RAd / Ostarine for 10 weeks

Post cycle bloods were generally normal but Total T was down to 100 (from 600) and HDL was 35 (down from 97)

PCT was Nolva 20/20/15/10 with MK. I stayed on the MK at 12.5 mg/day

New bloods are as follows:
HDL 39
Total T 179
Free T 56 (35-155 ref)
FSH 1.9 (1.6-8)
LH (2.1 (1.9 -9.3)
Estrogen 128 (60-190)
Glucose top of normal range
Prolactin 4 (well within normal)

Everything else looks good - although my liver values went up from 26-35 and now at 40. Still normal.

Looks like I didn't recover at all. I just started some more Ostsrine a few days ago (after I had this test) but I guess I should stop and run PCT again?? What about MK. Funny thing is I have been making good gains on the MK and do not feel like I have low T but I sure do now.

What should I do?


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[mig206]

By MK you mean MK-677? Ostarine is MK-2866. Just wanting to make sure you weren't running Ostarine during your PCT...

 

[Jimbo]

By MK you mean MK-677? Ostarine is MK-2866. Just wanting to make sure you weren't running Ostarine during your PCT...

Correct. MK677.

My doc buddy suggested HCG and Androgel. Should I do that or get some pharm grade Nolva?


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[JM750]

Well doing HCG and androgel would be putting you on trt, it would not be an attempt to bring natural levels up.

Exactly! This is NOT a concoction to bring your natty back up by all means. How old are you?

 

[Jimbo]

I'm 50. Natural levels before cycle were over 600


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[Jimbo]

He said HCG would help LH and would "override " the suppression from low dose androgel


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[Jimbo]

Also strange my HDL never bounced back. I've consistently had HDL levels above 80 for over 10 years – I have cut down on my cardio a bit in favor of lifting – but the Sarms definitely knocked them down


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[Jimbo]

I literally just started another cycle of Ostarine – about five days ago – and was going to run that along with SR 9009 and the MK 677. Based on these new lab results – I'm assuming I should drop the Ostarine since it will only further suppressed me and tank my HDL, no?


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[RickRock]

I literally just started another cycle of Ostarine – about five days ago – and was going to run that along with SR 9009 and the MK 677. Based on these new lab results – I'm assuming I should drop the Ostarine since it will only further suppressed me and tank my HDL, no?


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The Ostarine shouldn't affect it at all. Where did you get your SARMS from before? It's importan to have the high quality, and what we recommend is www.sarmsx.com

Some of the other companies out there have things in their products that aren't sarms which can cause those issues.

 

[Jimbo]

Got everything from SarmsX. I'm thinking the Nolvadex was not the best option for PCT and I should have run Clomid. If Ostarine will not further suppress me – I might want to run a low dose along with the MK 677 – but should I try using hCG?


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[eman]

Get some clomid and do another pct. I'm kinda surprised you didn't recover from the nolva though did you get that from sarmsx as well?

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[Jimbo]

Get some clomid and do another pct. I'm kinda surprised you didn't recover from the nolva though did you get that from sarmsx as well?

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Yes I did.


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[eman]

Hmm interesting... nolva should have boosted your T considerably. Perhaps since you are a bit older it will take longer for a full recovery. I would run some exemestane if u have on hand to get that e2 in check, that alone will help boost your test back up

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[Jimbo]

Hmm interesting... nolva should have boosted your T considerably. Perhaps since you are a bit older it will take longer for a full recovery. I would run some exemestane if u have on hand to get that e2 in check, that alone will help boost your test back up

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Have you used the Sarmsx Nolvadex? I can't imagine that it was a bad product, because the SARMs I've taken were such good quality – but I don't know how it could not work – unless somehow it raised my test and then it crashed a month later when I went off – or maybe I wasn't taking enough.

As I said I was taking the MK 677 – but my understanding is that that would not affect T levels at all

I've read all different things – about Nolvadex vs Clomid – and someone I just spoke to said that Clomid is better at targeting LH.

I think I'm going to blast some hCG.

I started to take some low-dose Ostarine to deal with some joint issues – and was going to run that along with the MK 677, and some SR 9009. This may seem like a stupid question – but do you think I should drop the Ostarine considering I'll be running some hCG or should I just keep taking it as though I was on a cycle. I've read Ostarine drops HDL levels – and mine are already pretty friggin low as well from the last cycle.

 

[eman]

Have you used the Sarmsx Nolvadex? I can't imagine that it was a bad product, because the SARMs I've taken were such good quality – but I don't know how it could not work – unless somehow it raised my test and then it crashed a month later when I went off – or maybe I wasn't taking enough.

As I said I was taking the MK 677 – but my understanding is that that would not affect T levels at all

I've read all different things – about Nolvadex vs Clomid – and someone I just spoke to said that Clomid is better at targeting LH.

I think I'm going to blast some hCG.

I started to take some low-dose Ostarine to deal with some joint issues – and was going to run that along with the MK 677, and some SR 9009. This may seem like a stupid question – but do you think I should drop the Ostarine considering I'll be running some hCG or should I just keep taking it as though I was on a cycle. I've read Ostarine drops HDL levels – and mine are already pretty friggin low as well from the last cycle.

What I think has happened is that the nolva did it's job, but once discontinued you experienced estrogen rebound from high levels of testosterone so you t levels dropped back down due to the high estrogen. I doubt it was a bad product considering it was from a reputable source, but yes drop the osta for now and focus on recovery run some clomid 50/50/25/25 and aromasin alongside u should be g2g

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[jp1957]

Osta "can" suppress a bit.

 

[Jimbo]

I've been doing a lot more research and chatting with some bodybuilders and I think I know what happened. My PCT protocol was completely insufficient. I only ran Nolvadex 20/20/15. I thought I could get away with the shorter, lower dose PCT since my LH and FSH were still in the low normal range even though my testosterone was completely crashed to under 100.

From what I learned Nolva AND Clomid is the best protocol – as Clomid increase the pulses of LH – whereas Nolvadex increases the frequency.

So a more proper PCT would have been as follows:
Clomid 50/50/25/25
Nolva 40/40/20/20.

I'm going to start that and see what happens. I don't believe I need an AI since my estrogen is within normal range but if you have any thoughts please let me know.


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[RickRock]

I've been doing a lot more research and chatting with some bodybuilders and I think I know what happened. My PCT protocol was completely insufficient. I only ran Nolvadex 20/20/15. I thought I could get away with the shorter, lower dose PCT since my LH and FSH were still in the low normal range even though my testosterone was completely crashed to under 100.

From what I learned Nolva AND Clomid is the best protocol – as Clomid increase the pulses of LH – whereas Nolvadex increases the frequency.

So a more proper PCT would have been as follows:
Clomid 50/50/25/25
Nolva 40/40/20/20.

I'm going to start that and see what happens. I don't believe I need an AI since my estrogen is within normal range but if you have any thoughts please let me know.


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That definitely was insufficient for pct bro. The Nolva and Clomid combo is your best bet to get you back to where you need to be with a successful recovery

 

[eman]

I've been doing a lot more research and chatting with some bodybuilders and I think I know what happened. My PCT protocol was completely insufficient. I only ran Nolvadex 20/20/15. I thought I could get away with the shorter, lower dose PCT since my LH and FSH were still in the low normal range even though my testosterone was completely crashed to under 100.

From what I learned Nolva AND Clomid is the best protocol – as Clomid increase the pulses of LH – whereas Nolvadex increases the frequency.

So a more proper PCT would have been as follows:
Clomid 50/50/25/25
Nolva 40/40/20/20.

I'm going to start that and see what happens. I don't believe I need an AI since my estrogen is within normal range but if you have any thoughts please let me know.


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On paper nolva seems better for restarting your hpta, but all the pro bodybuilders today don't even look at nolva as a pct drug instead they use it solely for gyno reversal. Clomid is superior imo for recovery and I can tell u this from personal experience running each drug solo for pct, clomid takes the cake.

So I'd reccomend just sticking to clomid 50/50/25/25 and aromasin 12.5 eod forget nolva altogether.


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[mig206]

I don't believe I need an AI since my estrogen is within normal range but if you have any thoughts please let me know.

Even if your estrogen is within range now, it will rise as your test levels rise. Aromasin 12.5mg EOD as suggested above is probably a good idea. Some people recommend running it for a few weeks even after you stop your SERMs. If you can, do bloods and adjust accordingly.