First Cycle, Help answer the big secret

[MarkR]

Hi Everyone,

Long time browser, first time poster!

Planning my first steroid cycle, which ill detail in a sec, basically this will be a cutting cycle.

What i want to know is, whats your opinion on how to burn fat and build muscle whilst using anabolic steroids?

First off -

Age 27
Training for 3-4 Years, started off at 64kg shrimp, reached 85kg earlier this year (July) and have been cutting slowly ever since, trying to preserve what muscle I've gained!
Currently 78kg, 5ft10 at 15% bf

Diet is as follows
1700 cals, 242 protein, 33.5 carbs, 68 fat (i did slowly taper the carbs down by 30grams on a 3 week process to reach where we are now, i also tend to have a soft drink or something carbtastic at weekends)

I train 4-5 days a week, cardio for 30-45 minutes in the evenings.



Secondly -

My proposed cycle, to preserve muscle whilst burning fat, and with your help - even build some more.

1 - 12 Test E 500mg
1 - 12 Arimidex 0.25mg eod
1 - 12 Saw Palmetto Extract 400mg per day
8 - 12 HCG 1000iu (2 x 500iu pw)

PCT
Climid 50/50/25/25
Nova 40/20/20/20
Arimidex 0.25 eod



What would you change where? Is it in the training, the diet or the drugs?

Let me also state that I'm presently not interested in using SARMS.

My buddy also has some injectable winy he won't use, would love to throw that in there in the end!

Thanks

 

[MarkR]

 

[RickRock]

I don't quite understand the logic in putting yourself in a caloric deficit with a test only first cycle brother. I know you said you aren't interested in using sarms, which you didn't state why, but it would like make more sense and be more effective to cut with those first, and save this test cycle for when you are ready to eat more and capitalize on more gains. Your cycle setup doesn't look too bad, except I would swap out Arimadex and use Aromasin instead. But like I said, I'd do a cutter with a sarms shred stack first if that's your goal

 

[Saiyan]

I'm going to have to agree with RR here. Test isn't going to cause you to burn more fat. Recovery and stuff can correlate yes, but it's not a fat burner. You can do that with a normal deficit and better eating.
The test would be much more beneficial for lean gain and bulking vs to maintain muscle on a cut. Several sarms shine at cutting fat. The same cannot be said about test and aas.
The setup is a good start though. Just don't set your expectations super high for that goal.


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[MarkR]

Thank you for the reply guys, this is why i thought id broadcast my opinions here.

The reason is purely retaining muscle mass, and hopefully even gaining a little more?

I see guys on this forums and many others building lean mass and cutting fat whilst using anabolic steroids, are you two simply suggesting that this isn't true and people should bulk on gear and cut on sarms?

I had also read that increased testosterone does increase fat loss, I'm hardly about to reference a study but its something i thought was pretty accurate?

I only didn't give my reason behind the sarms choice because i know many on this forum are behind them. I don't want to be seen to be bashing them at all, again this is just my two cents.From my point of view there seems to be a great variation on opinions on how effective they are, in regards to cost, and purpose. They are a fairly new approach to the market, and for that reason i would just like to stick to tried and trusted. Not to mention strict customs of where i am in the world.

Thanks guys

 

[MarkR]

Saiyan, you mentioned "better eating"

Could you delve a little deeper on your opinion? Do my micros look off?

Thanks

 

[Almighty100%bodyfat]

Personally I'm a BIGGGGG TIME believer in carb cycling to help with fat burning. I've always gotten great results with either a 3low-1high or a 4low-2 high. 33 grams of carbs isn't going to help build ANY muscle. Remember, in turn, 1 lb of lean muscle can burn up to 500 calories a day..3500 cal a week. That's 1lb of fat burned up just by packing on lean muscle. Don't think that carbs are the enemy. You build with them. Now the sodas need to go. If you think that a soda is gonna replenish glycogen storage better than oats or rice, you're mistaken. Cut that soda out and throw in some real carbs that actual HELP the muscle snd your body function. If you really want to lo carb, for you I would suggest the3 low 1 high. Low being 75grams on yohr low days and about 200g on your high day of quality carb source. And as for the sarms, I believe they would work great for you and your goals.

 

[Saiyan]

No that is not untrue. You can gain lean mass and lose weight on aas. Sorry if RR and I made it sound like you couldn't.
I am on my first sarms cycle at the moment. Two weeks in on a 12 week cycle. I was like you and had no intention whatsoever to try sarms. Then I thought what the hell. I've wasted $100s of dollar on bs supplement stores. I might as well try a SARM cycle. I am also running 600mg sust as well though.
But yes you are correct that test increases fat loss. But diet and training are more important than the gear. How much cardio do you do. When I did my recomp, before doing any aas, I had to up my cardio to every day and still lifted weights 3x a week. So dial that training in as well.
As far as the eating better comment. I didn't mean you were eating wrong. I just meant with an on point diet, the fat will be lost regardless of gear.
I think your cycle looks gear. You are being smart using just test for your first trial.
Have you ever calculated your bmr? to see how many calories you need to maintain?


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[MarkR]

Personally I'm a BIGGGGG TIME believer in carb cycling to help with fat burning. I've always gotten great results with either a 3low-1high or a 4low-2 high. 33 grams of carbs isn't going to help build ANY muscle. Remember, in turn, 1 lb of lean muscle can burn up to 500 calories a day..3500 cal a week. That's 1lb of fat burned up just by packing on lean muscle. Don't think that carbs are the enemy. You build with them. Now the sodas need to go. If you think that a soda is gonna replenish glycogen storage better than oats or rice, you're mistaken. Cut that soda out and throw in some real carbs that actual HELP the muscle snd your body function. If you really want to lo carb, for you I would suggest the3 low 1 high. Low being 75grams on yohr low days and about 200g on your high day of quality carb source. And as for the sarms, I believe they would work great for you and your goals.

Don't worry, i knew the soda was doing nothing, it really has been my only real cheat as I've been so carb conscious.

I have heard looks of great things regarding carb cycling, ill definitely look into it. Ill post a picture of my current diet soon, my carb sources are currently from brown rice and have always been from low glycemic foods.

Also, my current diet has been so focused on keeping those carbs low, due to what i had previously heard from training partners and well known cutting training programmes.

I was actually contemplating trying out the ketogenic diet, but i feel that would be of zero use in a steroid cycle.

 

[MarkR]

No that is not untrue. You can gain lean mass and lose weight on aas. Sorry if RR and I made it sound like you couldn't.
I am on my first sarms cycle at the moment. Two weeks in on a 12 week cycle. I was like you and had no intention whatsoever to try sarms. Then I thought what the hell. I've wasted $100s of dollar on bs supplement stores. I might as well try a SARM cycle. I am also running 600mg sust as well though.
But yes you are correct that test increases fat loss. But diet and training are more important than the gear. How much cardio do you do. When I did my recomp, before doing any aas, I had to up my cardio to every day and still lifted weights 3x a week. So dial that training in as well.
As far as the eating better comment. I didn't mean you were eating wrong. I just meant with an on point diet, the fat will be lost regardless of gear.
I think your cycle looks gear. You are being smart using just test for your first trial.
Have you ever calculated your bmr? to see how many calories you need to maintain?

Thanks again for input Saiyan, I know nothing beats diet and training, I'm not looking for any shortcuts, just the best results!

My current diet, which again ill post up soon is based on a deficit of around 500 calories, based on BMR + Activity.

Also, in all honesty, cardio up until this week has been slacking. What i am doing now is 30-45 minutes moderate to high intensity running on treadmill when i get home from work. Working 13 hour days and leaving house at 6am unfortunately doesn't let me squeeze in that fasted cardio everyone raves about.

When do you guys feel the best time to get your cardio in is ? apart from morning fasted of course.

 

[9th Wonder]

Have you tried SARMS before OP?

 

[MarkR]

My current diet -

Meal 1 06:15am Protein Shake - 180 cal 40 pro
Meal 2 9-10am 3egg3whites veg omelette 273 cal 29 pro 15 fat
GYM 1Hr
Meal 3 Protein Shake 110 cal 25 pro
Meal 4 12-1pm Chicken breast brown rice 300 cal 60 pro 10 fat
Meal 5 4-5pm Tuna in sunflower oil 190 cal 27 pro 9 fat
Meal 6 5:30-6:30pm Low Carb Nuts(varies) 290 cal 9 pro 22 fat
Proposed Cardio Slot 7pm
Meal 7 8-9pm Chicken and Veg 350 cal 52 pro 12 fat

Totals 1693 cal 242 pro 33 carb 67 fat

 

[MarkR]

Have you tried SARMS before OP?

No, the legality of them is something i have no idea of knowing (Strict Middle Eastern Country), shipping them here is something id probably get into trouble for and, to be honest like I've said before - everything Ive talked about previously, i can source pharmacy grade (Bayer Testoviron Depot for example)

From what i can tell, they work just like steroids, but not quite as strong, with fewer of the sides. Im not ruling out ill ever go down that route, but where did most of you guys start? was it with the in comparison unknown or the tried and trusted?

 

[Saiyan]

Cardio can be any time of the day. Don't think "I can't do fasted in the am so I might as well not do it" lol.
And good you've already calculated bmr and stuff. That's a good start.
That's a pretty mean split in macros lol. I haven't went that low in a looooong time but plan to cut for my next blast or so.
I say run your cycle as planned and see what you can do different next time. As said before, you're starting a smart first cycle. Just keep your head in the game and always learn.


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[MarkR]

Cardio can be any time of the day. Don't think "I can't do fasted in the am so I might as well not do it" lol.
And good you've already calculated bmr and stuff. That's a good start.
That's a pretty mean split in macros lol. I haven't went that low in a looooong time but plan to cut for my next blast or so.
I say run your cycle as planned and see what you can do different next time. As said before, you're starting a smart first cycle. Just keep your head in the game and always learn.

Thanks again Saiyan, Based on what Alpha has said, i may chop and change the diet up, i am really keen on trying to nail what the sweet spot is for me to obtain the loose fat build muscle recipe!

Just looking for everyones feedback on my take on it, and how they would tackle it.

 

[Saiyan]

Here's a couple more for you. What is your training like? Why not give us an overview.
Also have you ever had your natural levels checked?


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[MarkR]

Ok so am i right in thinking, that the answer is yes you can build muscle and burn fat, but not with that cycle. However no-one wants to say that incase i go ahead and decide to jump straight in the deep end (tren). Don't worry i won't. Im here to learn!


Saiyan, my training i feel is pretty good, i often switch up between heavy weight lower rep range 6-8 or 8-10 for a 2-3 week period then swap over to lower weight high rep ranges, like ten sets of ten with very short intervals, ultimately trying to reach the point where i can rep the weight continuously. Should training change whilst using steroids? I remember watching a Rich Piana video claiming that its all about high reps on gear, whats your take?

Cardio is 30-45 minutes moderate to high intensity, some days i also throw in some HIIT.

 

[Saiyan]

Yes you can do it with that cycle. And it's a very moderate first cycle which is good. It's just easier to cut weight with sarms than with aas.
And training will be different for everyone. If you respond well to high reps off Roids, you'll respond well on. Or if you are a low volume, heavy weight person, reflect that on cycle. I train just as hard off blast as I do on. I can physically do more on a blast, but I still give it everything every workout. On or not.
Yea don't do tren lol. It's the god and you don't go straight to it. Try your test cycle. Get through it giving it your all and see what the results are. Then we can help you set up something else if you want a different result.


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[RickRock]

For the purposes of retaining muscle mass while dieting down, your test cycle will certainly accommodate that. You have it setup good for a first cycle. I just wanted to stress that steroids are not fat burners, and should not be used as such. Even though it is true that higher levels of testosterone will help you shed fat easier, it is not a very profound effect like you are thinking. Not a big perceptible difference. The biggest advantage is like you said, maintaining the muscle while cutting.

That's why the sarms were recommended, because a couple of them in particular.....GW and SR9009 are specific for fat loss and are completely non hormonal. GW helps you burn your own fat as energy, and SR9009 raises your metabolism a significant degree to help you turn into a fat burning machine. I think both would be a great addition to your test cycle, and your results would be excellent compared to without them. I know you say your customs are tight, but pure essence has excellent results shipping worldwide. There is a certain way things are shipped non labeled and color coded to clear customs. It's extremely rare for there ever to be a problem.

On top of that, they are running the biggest sale of the year right now with 30% off.

 

[mastermolnar]

Also id suggest you use aromasin at 12.5mh eod instead of arimadex and if you do run arimadex not to continue it into your pct