first cycle coming

[bel3303]

Hi Dylan!
I almost got all suff, still waiting for few bits for pct.
I'm planing two cycles for the next year: first one will be 12 week test only, 500mg a week, split in to shots 250mg...
second will be 12 week test with 10week deca and dbol first 4 weeks as a kickstart.
test 500, deca 300. Kinda +- 3:2 ratio. (often suggested)

My qestion is (and I'm surprised ppl, who educate ppl about these things kinda skip on this info!) - the strenght of gear. For example - my test will be Test 400, wich, as I hope I understand correctly is 400 per 1ml of substance?

AM I RIGHT about it? (kinda first question)
My deca will be Deca 300, so to achieve 300, should I have 1ml of substance
from deca vial?
And to achieve 500mg of Test, do I need to take it to account and have +- 1.2ml in my syringe? (thats my second question)
Or am I going wrong now totally here big time?

gosh I thought I knew every single detail and was well prepared and educated my self, and here I am, few weeks from the start with massive confusion!!

 

[RackcityArms]

What brand are you using? And I've seen Test 400 be at 300mgs of 1 test and 100mgs of another, you sure it's not a mix? You need to check this stuff.

Research:
https://www.isarms.com/deca-durabolin

 

[Dylan Gemelli]

What brand are you using? And I've seen Test 400 be at 300mgs of 1 test and 100mgs of another, you sure it's not a mix? You need to check this stuff.

Research:
https://www.isarms.com/deca-durabolin

hey bro... one thing i want to point out... never plan your next two cycles unless your competing... you need to worry about what your doing NOW, not in the future... all your focus should about the cycle you are doing first... you never lose sight of the task at hand and you never know how your goals will change along the way... you may run a sarms bridge after your cycle and your body composition changes, you may not want a bulker for your next cycle... you just don't know but your main focus should be on the task at hand, which is the first cycle... As far as gear strength, if you have test 400 then its 400 mg/ml but that's a very poor choice for a first cycle... the higher the concentration of an anabolic, the more painful it will be and test 400 is painful... definitely high on PIP... deca 300 won't be bad, should be fairly smooth but its generally in 200-250 concentration levels... what is you planned pct? i have this feeling that is going to need some help... what ancillaries are you running on cycle?

 

[bel3303]

hey bro... one thing i want to point out... never plan your next two cycles unless your competing... you need to worry about what your doing NOW, not in the future... all your focus should about the cycle you are doing first... you never lose sight of the task at hand and you never know how your goals will change along the way... you may run a sarms bridge after your cycle and your body composition changes, you may not want a bulker for your next cycle... you just don't know but your main focus should be on the task at hand, which is the first cycle... As far as gear strength, if you have test 400 then its 400 mg/ml but that's a very poor choice for a first cycle... the higher the concentration of an anabolic, the more painful it will be and test 400 is painful... definitely high on PIP... deca 300 won't be bad, should be fairly smooth but its generally in 200-250 concentration levels... what is you planned pct? i have this feeling that is going to need some help... what ancillaries are you running on cycle?

Hi,
First cycle - 12 week Test only pct I'll have both Clomid and Nolva, moderate 4 weeks. Trough cycle I will have Arimidex on hand, not gonna use it if not needed as I need to see how prone I am to gyno. I hear it to be often used practice on first cycle to get to know your self. I will have hcg and Proviron on hand - and THIS IS A LAST CATCHY bit - about them still discusions going in my head and between my mate, who suggested it. I was ready to do hcg on cycle through-out, but he introduced to me info about Proviron, so I'm kinda studying it now. He mentioned no need for hcg on this cycle.
Your thoughts? Would you recomend runing hcg through first - Test only cycle? And where would be place for Proviron, dosages etc?
(I would appreciate answer to that one.)

Second cycle - Deca a bit different picture. With 12 week Test as a base, Deca will be 10 weeks, as it takes longer to clear system..
On this one PCT will be Clomid only, extended to 6 weeks.
Trough cycle definitely runing AI and hcg. Not sure AGAIN about Proviron where to put it. DHT seems to be good thing to take care of.
(what dosages of Proviron would you suggest on 10 week Deca 300 cycle?)
I couldn't get hands on Cabergoline, so thats of the list.
For Dbol will have something for liver protection. N2guard would be fab. if I'll get one, if not, something from farmacy shop will be anyway, better then nothing I gueas...

 

[Dylan Gemelli]

Hi,
First cycle - 12 week Test only pct I'll have both Clomid and Nolva, moderate 4 weeks. Trough cycle I will have Arimidex on hand, not gonna use it if not needed as I need to see how prone I am to gyno. I hear it to be often used practice on first cycle to get to know your self. I will have hcg and Proviron on hand - and THIS IS A LAST CATCHY bit - about them still discusions going in my head and between my mate, who suggested it. I was ready to do hcg on cycle through-out, but he introduced to me info about Proviron, so I'm kinda studying it now. He mentioned no need for hcg on this cycle.
Your thoughts? Would you recomend runing hcg through first - Test only cycle? And where would be place for Proviron, dosages etc?
(I would appreciate answer to that one.)

Second cycle - Deca a bit different picture. With 12 week Test as a base, Deca will be 10 weeks, as it takes longer to clear system..
On this one PCT will be Clomid only, extended to 6 weeks.
Trough cycle definitely runing AI and hcg. Not sure AGAIN about Proviron where to put it. DHT seems to be good thing to take care of.
(what dosages of Proviron would you suggest on 10 week Deca 300 cycle?)
I couldn't get hands on Cabergoline, so thats of the list.
For Dbol will have something for liver protection. N2guard would be fab. if I'll get one, if not, something from farmacy shop will be anyway, better then nothing I gueas...

your not running thorough pct's at all and that's a major issue... there is nothing more important in any cycle than pct... your still not listening either... why are you planning a cycle so far ahead when you have not even ran your first yet? i just don't get it... its clear why your doing that because your just not listening... i just want to help you do this right but your not focused properly... arimidex is fine but aromasin is better... you need to realize that test converts to estrogen... you have never ran a cycle... you need to just run moderate doses of an ai but you need to be using it... you NEVER use hcg for extended periods of time... it has a place in a cycle but a very small place... no need for n2guard either... its highly priced and you can get something just as effective for a far better price... try CEL cycle assist... what exactly is your goal from the first cycle? i'll set it up for you top to bottom and ensure you are doing it properly

 

[BigDaddyDelicious]

You should be using an AI from the first day of the cycle. It is a very bad idea to wait for the side effects to come before taking measures agains them. Keep in mind that it is much easier and much healthier to prevent side effects from occurring, rather than letting them appear and treating them. Therefore, use your arimidex from the first day of the cycle at 0.5 mgs EOD. Don't use HCG, neither before PCT, nor during PCT, as it may cause side effects as gyno and suppression. Besides, it will not do much for your natural testosterone production. All in all, you gotta work better on your PCT, and don't rely on Proviron for that - while it is very beneficial for natural testosterone production, it is not good enough for PCT.

 

[bel3303]

Hi, tnx for advice. There are so meny opinions on every bit, it makes much confusion.
About cycle planing - I am focusing ONLY on my first Test cycle. Why I have more stuff is diferent story then you talk about - I had a chance to come across a men, who supports/deals with profesional bodybuilders for god knows how many years (over 20 for sure, he finnished professional competitive bodybuilding him self in 1996). So the source of gear is tested very very good, for years. And good source is a huge privilege don't care who says what. Agree?
Also around summer or so I planning to be leaving my living place for good. I grabed what I could as he is extremily busy with his gym chain and other fitnes businesses. Even if I would desire something different later - I would just sell it off! simple!, as every third guy in my gym is on something. I rememmber like 12-14 years ago, when I started gym (I've been of this lifestyle for 5-6 years due personal life issues) hearing guys talking about Deca, some doing it. (+ my goal is pure bulking.) And they looked good, and my studies about it kinda bottleneck the decisoin to have it. That doesn't mean my main focus is on it right now. <-- Like I said, I had a chance to get a tested quality while I could.
(apollagies for chaotic order of answers - besides my desire of bulking - my first cycle goal is firstly to introduce my body with new thing - outside source of Test. As it logicaly should be, isn't it? Taking it step by step.
About AI: Originaly I planed running ai through both cycles and Aromasin was my first choice. I DO KNOW Aromasin is more superior. I've seen your and few others videos about it, red more then few articles.
Arimidex choice - the one I could get hands on -main thing - tested source, as it is more popular here. . I deal with the options I have. The source of gear I mentioned - I showed him my schedule table I drew in MSexcel, he made few quick comments, including adding Proviron, taking out on-cycle hcg, and few others changes... May be he's looking on it from profesional "hardcore" point of view, I can not say.
About HCG - There is an army of ppl claiming to blaze up high volume IN pct, others-acording to scientific studies, saying to use it ON CYCLE. I've looked on those pages of medical research my self, provided in description of few tutors. Been through god knows how many articles and sites, pictures of tables. Some tables had it placed in the last few weeks on cycle aswell. Some start right after cycle and going into pct weeks. And every one claims to be right. So logicaly it does make confussion.
Always best way will be to test it on your self I guess. So I'm trying to see a middle way somewhere, listen to my gut and think logicaly.
I do feel like rather use AI through all cycles, than experiment. Agreed on that one.

I'm not sure what Dylan mentions me of not listenting. Buddy I'm reading about these things for several years as much as I can. 2016 will be third one. Its a steady decision, I know you have opinion, and experience over 20 years as you mentioned your self. But there are many opinions out there, guys who doing this over 20 years too. I've seen most of your videos mate, I came across them already long time ago. And they are great!
Once again, I'm thanking you for advices, I appreciate you taking your time and helping out with the all the knowledge and sorting my cycle the right way.
Cheers!

 

[bel3303]

p.s.
One of several sources about HCG, discussed doing it with the cycle, in this forum post nr. #4
Your thoughts?

 

[Dylan Gemelli]

running hcg in your pct is about the worst thing you could do and i'll explain why... hcg can do several negative things, especially with extended use... one being that it will cause suppression... seems quite counterproductive to an optimal recovery... or how about the fact that it increases estrogen, which is the last thing you want done in pct... you can desensitize to it after long term use and it can cause several internal problems with heavy use especially long term... it has a place and its a small one at that... the last 4 weeks of your cycle, leading into pct but NEVER during...

the post you picked out is quite old yet it does bring up all the points i am bringing up about use... hcg is literally one of the worst things you could ever consider to use in pct... i have said this for many years, WITHOUT having to cut and paste information that is not my own as the article you showed was... all of his posts were cut and pasted, he openly admitted it to me... regardless, that is neither here nor there, the point is, it does have a place but it is often mis used and i don't want you to fall into that same scenario... I assure you, that the method i am giving is the optimal way... 1000 ius week, up to 4 weeks is plenty... two injections per week at 500 ius each injection.. you do it however you feel necessary but i can guarantee you that if you do it the way i am explaining, you will have the best experience you can have...

 

[bel3303]

running hcg in your pct is about the worst thing you could do and i'll explain why... hcg can do several negative things, especially with extended use... one being that it will cause suppression... seems quite counterproductive to an optimal recovery... or how about the fact that it increases estrogen, which is the last thing you want done in pct... you can desensitize to it after long term use and it can cause several internal problems with heavy use especially long term... it has a place and its a small one at that... the last 4 weeks of your cycle, leading into pct but NEVER during...

the post you picked out is quite old yet it does bring up all the points i am bringing up about use... hcg is literally one of the worst things you could ever consider to use in pct... i have said this for many years, WITHOUT having to cut and paste information that is not my own as the article you showed was... all of his posts were cut and pasted, he openly admitted it to me... regardless, that is neither here nor there, the point is, it does have a place but it is often mis used and i don't want you to fall into that same scenario... I assure you, that the method i am giving is the optimal way... 1000 ius week, up to 4 weeks is plenty... two injections per week at 500 ius each injection.. you do it however you feel necessary but i can guarantee you that if you do it the way i am explaining, you will have the best experience you can have...

Hi Dylan, first of all Happy NewYear to you and everyone here!
Back to topic -NO MAN! We are talking about different thing here! My issue is not a desire to use it in pct, NO WAY!! There is some missunderstanding. I wonder if I could attach a picture with post here with my schedule table I drew in MSexcel to avoid futher missunderstanding. And focus would be on the true, if such is, thing I might be considering doing not so correctly.
I think I managed attachments. I drew this table long time ago, time after time I keep coming back to edit some parts if needed . I'm trying to keep it as simple as possible. No orals no Proviron, no nothing on first one. I need to see how my body reacts to Test only and go from there.
Take a look pls and tell me your thoughts what would you change?
p.s.
There is version 1 and version 2 with hcg..

 

[BigDaddyDelicious]

It is a bad idea to use HCG in any case - be it during the cycle, or during the PCT. It won't do much for you on cycle, if anything at all, but can cause such side effects as suppression (which does not matter all that much during the cycle, but will make a difference if you use it before PCT), and gyno. If you want to use it just for the balls size, there are better alternatives. As for the Proviron, there is no need to worry about it, because it is neither suppressive, nor liver toxic. Also, I would highly recommend using aromasin instead of arimidex. Aromasin is a much better AI in every regard. Arimidex will increase the levels of bad cholesterol, while aromasin will on the contrary increase the levels of good cholesterol. Additionally, aromasin is a suicide AI, so there will be no estrogen rebounds when using it. Finally, it has such great benefits as the ability to increase free test levels and increase IGF-1 production by up to 25%. Therefore, it is a much better option. The optimal dosage is 10 mgs EOD. If you will still insist on using arimidex, I would rather recommend taking it EOD, not E3D.

 

[bel3303]

I absorbed the info it being suppresive and red about aromasin being a suicide AI, and diferences between popular choices.
I stated my reason of choice in previos post. If at some point in my futher experience I would have chance to get Aromasin, my choice would go with it, sure, I like the listed goodness in articles.
I also do worry about my abilities of testies, there is always a choice to make and consequence to deal with.
HCG same as with Aromasin, often is better choices, but this is the one I could get my hands on from tested source I trust.
I was planing to stop hcg when test last inj stops, where I'll have 14 days for Test and others clearence. I'm not sure wheter to go with on side army of people claiming to be best to go with a small maintenance dose of HCG during the cycle, or other group saying last 4-6 weeks on the cycle, giving it a "kick starting" dosage, stopping it along with Tests last inj. Having a 14 day break before going into PCT. Wich I ilustrated in secont attachment version. My thoughts are around lh deficiency for extended time, as it causes the testes to desensitize, requiring a higher HCG, and as some research states, a high probability that you won't regain full testicular function.
And now I have third group saying not use it at all. I do worry about my testicular disfunction.

Some ppl may have seen this post:
"The decreased testosterone secretion capacity caused by steroid use was well demonstrated in a study on power athletes who used steroids for 16 weeks, and were then administered 4500iu HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - post cycle. It was found that the steroid users were about 20 times less responsive to HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - , when compared to normal men who did not use steroids. (8) In other words, their testosterone secretion capacity was dramatically reduced because they did not receive an lh - leutenizing hormone - signal for 16 weeks. The testes essentially became desensitized and crippled. Case studies with steroid using patients show that aggressive long-term treatment with HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - at dosages as high as 10,000iu E3D for 12 weeks were unable to return full testicular size. (7) Another study with men using low dose steroids for 6 weeks showed unsuccessful return of Insulin-like factor-3 (INSL3) concentration in the testes upon 5000iu/wk of HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - treatment for 12 weeks (6) (INSL3 is an important biomarker for testosterone production potential and sperm production) 20

In light of the above evidence, it becomes obvious that we must take preventative measures to avoid this testicular degeneration. We must protect our testicular sensitivity. Besides, with HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - being so readily available, and such a painless shot, it makes you wonder why anyone wouldn't use it on cycle.

Based on studies with normal men using steroids, 100iu HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - administered everyday was enough to preserve full testicular function and ITT levels, without causing desensitization typically associated with higher doses of HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - . (2) It is important that low-dose HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - is started before testicular sensitivity is reduced, which appears to rapidly manifest within the first 2-3 weeks of steroid use. Also, it's important to discontinue the HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - before you start Post-cycle-Therapy so your leydig cells are given a chance to re-sensitize to your body's own lh - leutenizing hormone - production." ..

article goes on with futher details.

Few questions on your post:
You said hcg and sides such as gyno - If I'm having AI through out cycle and Nolva on hand, how about them?
You mentioned Proviron, should I use it on my first cycle after all? At the begining I had a very simple cycle plan, and it keeps growing around with opinions.
reason of mentioning it - I was trying to understand why a mate at gym recomended it, but said keeping AI just on hand. Even with some AI benefits from it, Proviron surely will not replace an AI, although it does have other benefits like freeing up test and increase in libido.
The more I ask and search questions, the more confussed I get.
Tnx for taking your time to help with info.

 

[BigDaddyDelicious]

Well, it is quite pointless to use HCG on cycle, as you will still be suppressed due to the steroid use on cycle. It will be like trying to hold some water in a skimmer. If you want your LH and FSH functioning, HCG is a poor choice, as it does shit for them. It only mimics the functions of these hormones in order to stimulate testosterone production, but it does not actually make them work. Therefore, it will not do anything on cycle, since your testes won't be working in any case, unless you use a compound that actuall makes LH and FSH function, and will stimulate them. There are some natty test booster that have such ability. The article you are citing is telling exactly the same things as I do here.

As for the questions in particular:

1. Neither the AI, nor the nolva will save you from gyno caused by HCG, because first of all it will cause the gyno via a different route. Secondly, it will drastically increase estrogen levels beyond the capabilities of either AI's or nolva.

2. I will put it like this. While Proviron will not cause any side effects, nor will it be suppressive, it can be very beneficial for the cycle quality, but it will not be a game changer. So it is up to you, if you want to use this small bonus, or not.

Don't worry about all the confusion - steroids are a very complicated topic, and it takes years of study and experience to learn everything about them.

 

[bel3303]

Well, it is quite pointless to use HCG on cycle, as you will still be suppressed due to the steroid use on cycle. It will be like trying to hold some water in a skimmer. If you want your LH and FSH functioning, HCG is a poor choice, as it does shit for them. It only mimics the functions of these hormones in order to stimulate testosterone production, but it does not actually make them work. Therefore, it will not do anything on cycle, since your testes won't be working in any case, unless you use a compound that actuall makes LH and FSH function, and will stimulate them. There are some natty test booster that have such ability. The article you are citing is telling exactly the same things as I do here.

As for the questions in particular:

1. Neither the AI, nor the nolva will save you from gyno caused by HCG, because first of all it will cause the gyno via a different route. Secondly, it will drastically increase estrogen levels beyond the capabilities of either AI's or nolva.

2. I will put it like this. While Proviron will not cause any side effects, nor will it be suppressive, it can be very beneficial for the cycle quality, but it will not be a game changer. So it is up to you, if you want to use this small bonus, or not.

Don't worry about all the confusion - steroids are a very complicated topic, and it takes years of study and experience to learn everything about them.

Tnx mate, I will take some time to digest the information. Do few more digging through research on specifics bits left to undarstand.

About Proviron as sides I rememmber ppl mentioning need of monitoring high blood presure and hair loss, DHT factor.
I will have more depth conversation with the mate in my gym who brought the subject up.. If I'll decide to add it in, the dosage would be something like 25mg, knowing some ppl running it as high as 50-75-100 and seen even higher.

But I would like to focus more on HCG subject, health of testies. Having a happy relationship and healthy sexual life with partner nuts most of the time are half empty already as they are on daily bases. Which makes a thought of extended disfuction kinda worrying matter.
What would be different choice you would suggest to avoid testical atrophy instead of hcg? dosages and timing for my cycle illustrated few posts back?
I red good words about HCGenerate.

 

[Dylan Gemelli]

Tnx mate, I will take some time to digest the information. Do few more digging through research on specifics bits left to undarstand.

About Proviron as sides I rememmber ppl mentioning need of monitoring high blood presure and hair loss, DHT factor.
I will have more depth conversation with the mate in my gym who brought the subject up.. If I'll decide to add it in, the dosage would be something like 25mg, knowing some ppl running it as high as 50-75-100 and seen even higher.

But I would like to focus more on HCG subject, health of testies. Having a happy relationship and healthy sexual life with partner nuts most of the time are half empty already as they are on daily bases. Which makes a thought of extended disfuction kinda worrying matter.
What would be different choice you would suggest to avoid testical atrophy instead of hcg? dosages and timing for my cycle illustrated few posts back?
I red good words about HCGenerate.

Im sorry but in no way, shape or form is hcgenerate even close to hcg... Hcg is something often misused and misunderstood... It has a place on cycle but only a small window... The last 4 weeks of your cycle is the way to use it, kickstarting your pct and thats it... With 4 weeks of use, you will get the benefits without the sides but any more is very unnecessary and often detrimental... Keep it to 4 weeks at 1000 ius week... No more than that

 

[bel3303]

Im sorry but in no way, shape or form is hcgenerate even close to hcg... Hcg is something often misused and misunderstood... It has a place on cycle but only a small window... The last 4 weeks of your cycle is the way to use it, kickstarting your pct and thats it... With 4 weeks of use, you will get the benefits without the sides but any more is very unnecessary and often detrimental... Keep it to 4 weeks at 1000 ius week... No more than that

Dylan, 4 last weeks while cycle still on - and finishing along with last Test inj. to give the system 14 days of clearense - would that be correct?


Gosh I've spent nearly 5-6 hours of todays reading extended discussion on hcg. My eyes are almost bleeding.
I red more about Pituitary. As HCG only mimics lh, but the equation also has gnrh and FSH. Natural choices like HCGenerate actually stimulates natural lh production right? Is HCGenerate like a natural Test booster legally obtainable on open market?
I hope I'm constructing my understanding right way. If so, I kinda understand you talking about 4 week benefit.
HCG, if used for extended period kinda loses it effectiveness too, is that true? Is that one of the reason aswell better to do last 4 weeks at higher dose? Apart from less time under supression and threats to estrogen levels?

So conclusion could be to run HCGenerate along with 4 last weeks HCG?
Do you run hcgenerate through all 12 weeks or is there a specific place and time for it on the cycle?

And last to this post - is this statement (from some post) correct?
"The hypothalamus, upon realizing that blood levels of androgens are low releases Gonadotropin Releasing Hormone (GnRH). GnRH goes to the pituitary which takes this hormone as the stimulus to release Lutenising Hormone (lh - leutenizing hormone - ). lh - leutenizing hormone - then goes to the testes and stimulates T production. HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - mimics lh - leutenizing hormone - however it is not lh - leutenizing hormone - !!!!!!!

The HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - would stimulate more T to be released. but during a cycle the hypothalamus would still "recognise" the increased level of androgens and still stop releasing GnRH which in turn would lead to the pituitary stopping your own natural production of lh - leutenizing hormone - .

This wouldn't matter so much whilst you were taking the HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - as this replaces the lh - leutenizing hormone - and so T production would continue whilst you kept taking the HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - . So although HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - may prevent degeneration of the ladeg cells (remember that your own body isnt producing any lh - leutenizing hormone - or GnRH anymore!!! regardless ) As the hypothalamus recognizes outside sources of both androgens and lh - leutenizing hormone - now it will feather suppress its own production of lh - leutenizing hormone - and GnRH The problem is that whilst the pituitary has been lying dormant due to not receiving any GnRH from the Hypothalamus it atrophies (just like the testes do when not used)."

p.s.
I added attachment with my cycle. Anything to change?
No Proviron at the moment. I will spend some more time studying it. I would love the idea of more free test, libido boost and other stated benefits.

 

[Dylan Gemelli]

Dylan, 4 last weeks while cycle still on - and finishing along with last Test inj. to give the system 14 days of clearense - would that be correct?


Gosh I've spent nearly 5-6 hours of todays reading extended discussion on hcg. My eyes are almost bleeding.
I red more about Pituitary. As HCG only mimics lh, but the equation also has gnrh and FSH. Natural choices like HCGenerate actually stimulates natural lh production right? Is HCGenerate like a natural Test booster legally obtainable on open market?
I hope I'm constructing my understanding right way. If so, I kinda understand you talking about 4 week benefit.
HCG, if used for extended period kinda loses it effectiveness too, is that true? Is that one of the reason aswell better to do last 4 weeks at higher dose? Apart from less time under supression and threats to estrogen levels?

So conclusion could be to run HCGenerate along with 4 last weeks HCG?
Do you run hcgenerate through all 12 weeks or is there a specific place and time for it on the cycle?

And last to this post - is this statement (from some post) correct?
"The hypothalamus, upon realizing that blood levels of androgens are low releases Gonadotropin Releasing Hormone (GnRH). GnRH goes to the pituitary which takes this hormone as the stimulus to release Lutenising Hormone (lh - leutenizing hormone - ). lh - leutenizing hormone - then goes to the testes and stimulates T production. HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - mimics lh - leutenizing hormone - however it is not lh - leutenizing hormone - !!!!!!!

The HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - would stimulate more T to be released. but during a cycle the hypothalamus would still "recognise" the increased level of androgens and still stop releasing GnRH which in turn would lead to the pituitary stopping your own natural production of lh - leutenizing hormone - .

This wouldn't matter so much whilst you were taking the HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - as this replaces the lh - leutenizing hormone - and so T production would continue whilst you kept taking the HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - . So although HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - may prevent degeneration of the ladeg cells (remember that your own body isnt producing any lh - leutenizing hormone - or GnRH anymore!!! regardless ) As the hypothalamus recognizes outside sources of both androgens and lh - leutenizing hormone - now it will feather suppress its own production of lh - leutenizing hormone - and GnRH The problem is that whilst the pituitary has been lying dormant due to not receiving any GnRH from the Hypothalamus it atrophies (just like the testes do when not used)."

p.s.
I added attachment with my cycle. Anything to change?
No Proviron at the moment. I will spend some more time studying it. I would love the idea of more free test, libido boost and other stated benefits.

there is NO NEED WHATSOEVER for hcgenerate in here... not at all... run hcg the last 4 weeks of the cycle... that includes the time the esters are clearing... so if you run a 12 week cycle then weeks 11-14 is when you would run hcg at 1000 ius week... then pct would begin week 15... your last pin is week 12... esters clear 13 and 14... pct begins 15

 

[BigDaddyDelicious]

Dylan, 4 last weeks while cycle still on - and finishing along with last Test inj. to give the system 14 days of clearense - would that be correct?


Gosh I've spent nearly 5-6 hours of todays reading extended discussion on hcg. My eyes are almost bleeding.
I red more about Pituitary. As HCG only mimics lh, but the equation also has gnrh and FSH. Natural choices like HCGenerate actually stimulates natural lh production right? Is HCGenerate like a natural Test booster legally obtainable on open market?
I hope I'm constructing my understanding right way. If so, I kinda understand you talking about 4 week benefit.
HCG, if used for extended period kinda loses it effectiveness too, is that true? Is that one of the reason aswell better to do last 4 weeks at higher dose? Apart from less time under supression and threats to estrogen levels?

So conclusion could be to run HCGenerate along with 4 last weeks HCG?
Do you run hcgenerate through all 12 weeks or is there a specific place and time for it on the cycle?

And last to this post - is this statement (from some post) correct?
"The hypothalamus, upon realizing that blood levels of androgens are low releases Gonadotropin Releasing Hormone (GnRH). GnRH goes to the pituitary which takes this hormone as the stimulus to release Lutenising Hormone (lh - leutenizing hormone - ). lh - leutenizing hormone - then goes to the testes and stimulates T production. HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - mimics lh - leutenizing hormone - however it is not lh - leutenizing hormone - !!!!!!!

The HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - would stimulate more T to be released. but during a cycle the hypothalamus would still "recognise" the increased level of androgens and still stop releasing GnRH which in turn would lead to the pituitary stopping your own natural production of lh - leutenizing hormone - .

This wouldn't matter so much whilst you were taking the HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - as this replaces the lh - leutenizing hormone - and so T production would continue whilst you kept taking the HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - . So although HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - may prevent degeneration of the ladeg cells (remember that your own body isnt producing any lh - leutenizing hormone - or GnRH anymore!!! regardless ) As the hypothalamus recognizes outside sources of both androgens and lh - leutenizing hormone - now it will feather suppress its own production of lh - leutenizing hormone - and GnRH The problem is that whilst the pituitary has been lying dormant due to not receiving any GnRH from the Hypothalamus it atrophies (just like the testes do when not used)."

p.s.
I added attachment with my cycle. Anything to change?
No Proviron at the moment. I will spend some more time studying it. I would love the idea of more free test, libido boost and other stated benefits.

You are getting the idea pretty much correctly. As for the Proviron, it can indeed cause high BP and hairloss, but only at high dosages. Personally, I find 50 mgs per day to be the ideal dosage - it is high enough for really good results, and yet it is very safe in terms of these side effects, which usually take place in those with predispositions.

 

[bel3303]

I made the changes in my MSexcel table. Does it look correct? Any comments?

 

[BigDaddyDelicious]

I would increase both arimidex to 0.5 mgs and Proviron to 50 mgs per day, and I would still abstain from HCG use. Other than that, looks fine to me.