3 months Recovering from Post Finasteride Syndrome

[holyhead]

Have improved more this week on than since I have been on trt in 2 months..May feel like death tomorrow but right now I am greatly improved.. my "feelings" are improved with well being much improved..Movement is better and more freely..Body is still shitty and watery and mushy..But this works like you improve a little very slowly..Then feel like shit again..The you improve a little more....etc. Its a slow process like 2 steps forward, 3 steps back over and over with gradual improvement..This condition is definelty hormonal and directly releated to testoserone someway or I would not have improved this much on this protocol of Gordon's..

Thats what Gordon has me on..40mg twice a week..But my nut has shrank already quiet a bit..I am supposed to be on clomid with the trt every third day but stopped the clomid when I started trt but may bring it back next month after my next talk with Gordon..IMO there is about three different aspects to this shit,HPTA disruption and hormonal drop in all hormones and testosterone...Depletion of nuero steriods in the brain and also some type of down regulation of entire system like a slow down and decrease in androgen receptors through the body..Thats why I think you will probably never see a "cure" for this its to varied and complex but maybe a better type of thearpies later if the exact cause is ever discovered..

Note now guys I feel the best right now since I started treatment in Feb...

 

[holyhead]

Hey Holyhead,

I have been following you on a few websites now. Propeciahelp. Swolesource I believe. I am in the same boat as you. I took propecia for 1 month total and it wreaked havoc on me. It is now 4 months off and I am totally lost. Mind is different for sure. I could still get weak erections and my libido would blip in and it but nothing good enough to ever be with a woman. My body has changed a lot too and it is way harder for me to lose weight or gain muscle. Luckily I eat super healthy, don’t drink, or eat junk food so I haven’t ballooned.

I am in the military (pilot) and I can’t take drugs for life except for approved meds. For some reason finasteride is approved?? Fucked up right. I’ll lose my job if I have to take things like clomid, and all that stuff forever.

I am meeting an endocrinologist tomorrow. I was hoping that since I have low test, below range FSH, bottom of range LH, and estradiol that is high. DHT IS still quite high actually almost top of range. Like 3000 when range is 800-3000. No idea how this is. Maybe the other enzymes are compensating? I don’t know.

I am really hoping to do a HPTA RESTART with HCG for 14 days following by clomid days 1-35 and tamoxifen days 1-45 with aroma sin all the way throughout. Then remove it all and hope I stabilize. If not, TRT is an approved med. Guess I won’t be having kids.

Did any of this work for you. What did work? What didn’t? From your experience what do you recommend?

Thanks man. Hope to hear back.

Look at my threads here and do what I did.Or see Gordon..Endos are slow and usually no help..I had the same shit was fine, ton of hair right after starting the pills the hairs were falling and sheedding so bad it would cover shower drain and was making a mess all over house through the day...Your test is a disaster its way low just like mine was..Run around of clomid 50mgx3 a week..After a couple months you should see improvment but if not enough you will have to go trt..I would just contact Gordon he has a PFS sign up on his site now and get on a protocol and labs..He's expensive but I am seeing a lot of improvement..Stay away from estrogen blockers they are not needed with this and several people have killed themselves by taking AIs with pfs and not getting labs by making a bad situation even worse..Your e is probably already low.. Good Luck..

 

[iron.triangle]

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[chelades]

Just a bit of what I've read from a few theories over the years as I have PSSD from Sertraline which is similar to PFS.

Supposedly what happens with the blockage of 5AR, is that the androgen receptors themselves atrophy and "burn away" if you will. Which is why this is hard to reverse. The reason you can have such sky high DHT (which regardless is also as bad as having low DHT) is that it has nowhere to go to work on AR sites because they have been fried. Supposedly this has been tested and somewhat acknowledged by free DHT etc the same way we do free test. Same reason your body changes etc to that watery jelly feeling, because all your DHT etc can not go to work on your ar sites do it just builds up.

Makes sense to me. Although it's shit to hear.

 

[iron.triangle]

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[holyhead]

I had the same thing..Elvis Presley hair..Started generic proscar cut..After a few weeks my thick dark mane began falling out and was there got extremely dry and basically looked like dog shit..Next I noticed the tissue around my abs began getting thicker and strange looking..I stopped..4 months later a shit ton of hair fell out and I went back to normal..If it goes back not only do u re bald but it caused a great acceleration of balding than if u had not taken it in the first place..Like an idiot I listen to the derm told me use brand name propecia..It was more effective for sure but problem is it's too effective..

 

[chelades]

You think this can happen with such a short time frame of usage????

Guys abuse steroids for years and though its tough a lot can come back from it. There are also guys who take Propecia for years with no problems. I am not too sure but I have done a ton of research as well and I think there are many forms of PFS. One of the forms you mention is the one above^^^^^^^

I am hoping that since I starting losing hair immediately on it, i went hypogonadal due to some bad reaction. I got off it quick after that.

I read an article from Dr. John Crisler saying that a lot of guys who took propecia and have sides afterwards think they have PFS, which they actually don't. The drug just made them hypogonadal. I have also read that this is an easier one to fix.

If the androgen receptor desensitization is true due to an epigenetic change or a methylation or whatever I have read. Then yah..... i guess time is the only thing??? or a lot of TRT to get T levels higher then the normal range.

That is what Dr. Crisler stated. If the HPTA restart doesn't work, then that means androgen sensitivity is present and it takes higher then normal tesosterone to feel somewhat normal again.

I am hoping since my body hasn't ballooned, I can still get a shitty boner and have somewhat of a libido, like a shred, but its there. I am hoping I am not doomed. Just operating at 25% capacity right now.

I am off to my endo appointment. Will update you guys how it went.

Guys have had PSSD (not as bad as PFS remember) from a SINGLE dose. Hell yes, it is possible. Everyone is different but at the rampant rates these things HAVE been affecting people they shouldn't be allowed to be sold.

In essence it's the same thing. You're hypo from having your androgens decimated regardless, though when you're replacing the androgens you don't react in the same way as someone who didn't get to that level of adrogen deficiency via that mechanism. Because whatever mechanism that caused it isn't typical, it's from some kind of neurotransmitter / AR Receptor down-regulation. So many guys - myself included - don't even respond to full blown TRT in quite the same way as a 'normie' would.

 

[holyhead]

Yep it's neurologic in origin I believe..Lots say ar sites in tissue can't be down regulated..But your brain controls how respond to everything..including androgens..Its now known 5arplays a big role in brain function and the complex interplay between hypothalamus and pituitary is interrupted..Someone else here said that body builders using steroids don't get this..The difference is they are increasing androgens and dht..Not lowering them and blocking a crucial enzyme in the body..plus those that do mix finasteride are usually juicing before or with and a lot higher test than average Joe like me...

 

[chelades]

Correct. The tap was running and they turned it on harder, then backed it back off. Whereas we turned the tap right off. Despite how hard we try to turn it back on, the water stopped flowing.

 

[iron.triangle]

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[iron.triangle]

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[iron.triangle]

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[holyhead]

Dude hard to know what u mean..And I have told everyone who emails me about this the samething..Follow my thread at solvepfs..That is everything I have done and know about pfs..

I have spent a few thousand dollars on Gordon and treatment..Mainly labs are expensive and my quality life has went up..There is improvement and treatment in that sense..There is no normal or going back to pre finasteride..Mainly mental symptoms improve and energy goes way up..But the physical sides are unchanged..I am huge all the time body is alien to before pfs..When I came home from work last night I swole beyond belief..The change in my hair and body is honestly disturbing...Wishef I could say more but no one knows the cause some say it's androgen receptors are only metabolising a small percent of androgens and that's why the tissues are so slow to come back etc...Also definitely is a brain component involved with 5ar and hypothalamus pituitary axis..

But everyone I talked to do nothing but ask more and more questions about it while they don't do anything or follow your advice anyway..

 

[iron.triangle]

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[iron.triangle]

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[holyhead]

Yeah two times..First time mine did the something as soon as dht starts dropping a hormone imbalance is created and a shit ton of hair sheds out..I would be careful with that rigorous of a restart..look at my labs I humped up greatly on 50mgx3 week Clomid only..Becareful added that high amounts may fuck u up worse..its not really the restart because it helps but a lot of symptoms won't go away with great levels..Thats the point lots with perfect labs but the symptoms remain..why I say seems the problem is not on the production end but the processing end..

 

[iron.triangle]

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[holyhead]

For one they don't even really know what's wrong with us..If you follow my Gordon's protocol here you will restart..My test jumped from 300s to almost 700..just on Clomid but these people taking 12.5mg and all that crap don't know what they are doing.

ALSO labs mean nothing with pfs..some have great labs and are still terrible co dition..Mine even though much improved am still in bad shape..no where near normal but longer u wait going around to different forums worse u will be..Told u people just keep asking same ol thing about pfs..no answers but wished I had not wasted so much time listening to people and had started sooner..

 

[chelades]

Correct, you need to act ASAP. There's also study data showing that when replacing Test with any form, you need to reach over 800ng/dl in a NORMAL person to get therapeutic benefit. Let alone someone with PFS/PSSD who needs to go even higher. There are times when I have been the sterling example of the most optimum labs you could envisage. Test at 1,200ng, E2 at 25 and Prolactin dialled in to a t. And I've still felt like shit. Again, labs are a guide at best, not the end goal.

You need to get your androgen capacity back and constantly flooded, and then wait and hope the damage reverses, and there will be good and bad days and periods, but correction and time is the key, until we know more about the processing side of things.

As said before, I don't think estrogens and PCT's are the way to get this androgen production back. I would much rather bite the bullet and go TRT. At least then once your body is used to androgen levels again, you could potentially try to come off and PCT.

 

[iron.triangle]

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