Your liver and the toxicity of oral AAS.

[TX TERROR]

Just use good judgment. When you want the extra crazy edge don't get it from orals. That's a stupid thing to seek out anyway on its own but don't turn to orals to change the game cause you will just fuck yourself up 90% of the time.

Here's what I'm doing personally. Came across an old prohormone. A good one. Like a really good one. Shits nuts I love it. I would buy it by the crate. Well as much as I love it I'm on week 3 almost and my appetite just died. I'm feeling lethargic. You know... the usual stuff.

Now here is an example of listen to your body. Of course I wanna continue but fuck man its not worth it haha. Once the sides hit, back off. Stop trying to push through it. When you push it, you will suffer.

Be reasonable and listen to your body. That's the best thing to do.

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[TX TERROR]

When these other guys look at these stupid oral only cycles too they don't even realize it's happening too wich is the problem. Just to busy focusing on the bloated gainnnzzzz

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[TX TERROR]

Your liver does a lot of cool shit too. It's really not something you wanna bust.

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[Shockmaster]

OP maybe some ox bile would help you. I bought some for my Dbol run but didnt use it much. This post convinced me to invest in tudca anyway for orals pct

 

[Androman]

I am no expert here and I am only repeating conversations with drb. The tudca is not good while on orals but you should begin it immeditely AFTER orals.It is a good cleanser.It is good for cholestasis, but that can be caused from quite a few things including cholesterol medications, and is not one of the first symtoms of oral damage. Hopefully your intake of orals will never take you this far because you will be getting gradually more yellow.The best way to check for yellow is in the mirror and stick your tongue out as far as possible.Look under the tongue for the yellow tint that begins cholestasis. The very first signs of liver DAMAGE is fatigue and just feeling very ill and lethargic. So the actual liver damage we may experience is actually not a lot of concern, since we may never know of it. You can do more damage by taking 2 extra strength tylenols 5 times/day then 4 weeks of an oral.

If what you had was indeed caused by adrol then I would be surprised. As for stools the floaters are a sign of liver malfunction of digesting fats, not liver damage. You are just changing the way the liver goes about its business. This is what cholesterol meds do..it makes the liver stop making so much cholesterol and that is why over the long haul some people may then get liver damage...which usually can reverse itself. The sign of actual liver damage is a black tar like stool.

So my point is that there is a difference between liver function changes as opposed to damage. You had a function change but probably no damage, but you can see how bad you feel whenever it involves the liver.I have heard that chirossis is one of the most horrible deaths.

So if we use sensibility and watch the dose and duration of orals we should be ok. My guess is that the lack of bile acid that you experienced was caused by eith something else or the combo of an oral and lets say anti cholesterol meds, or alcohol etc

Ahh so not so much liver damage but liver malfunctions which if ignored can lead to damaging of the hepatocytes, As for the combo; no not really this was my second run with anadrol. I don't drink or even touch caffeine for that matter. I have been sober for about two years, nor do I take anticholesterol medications, I actually have really good cholesterol. Within the third to fourth week of my trenbolone use, my total cholesterol was at 131.... I was just popping 2 anadrol 50s a day. I was taking only 50mg for the first week & I felt great but when I took another everything felt like it was going down hill. I started feeling lethargic, light depression here and there and the loss of appetite (try forcing feeding yourself dry chicken) Sucks because I really enjoyed the strength gains and how much I filled out my clothes but it wasn't worth the whole negatives. I already ordered TUDCA & will use it for detoxification. Sticking to Tbol or Var from now on.


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[Androman]

Just use good judgment. When you want the extra crazy edge don't get it from orals. That's a stupid thing to seek out anyway on its own but don't turn to orals to change the game cause you will just fuck yourself up 90% of the time.

Here's what I'm doing personally. Came across an old prohormone. A good one. Like a really good one. Shits nuts I love it. I would buy it by the crate. Well as much as I love it I'm on week 3 almost and my appetite just died. I'm feeling lethargic. You know... the usual stuff.

Now here is an example of listen to your body. Of course I wanna continue but fuck man its not worth it haha. Once the sides hit, back off. Stop trying to push through it. When you push it, you will suffer.

Be reasonable and listen to your body. That's the best thing to do.

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Yeah that's part of the game. Take care of your body and your body will take care of you. Once things start taking a turn that's when you have to drop your ego & pay attention to what's going on inside you. What prob hormone was it? I never really messes with PHs, but man this drol had me benching 365 for 3. That was a PR. last chest day when completely off the anadrol, I still manage to get it up but for only a double...I really don't want to lose that weight on the bar. My whole family started asking me if I'm "injecting" lol I was getting too swelled up. Peaked at 227.9lbs @ only 5'9. Not relatively lean tho, idrc for that at the moment but By far my favorite cycle for strength power & mass.


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[Androman]

OP maybe some ox bile would help you. I bought some for my Dbol run but didnt use it much. This post convinced me to invest in tudca anyway for orals pct

Thanks man I will check that out!


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[Androman]

You mentioned taking TUDKA before during and after your oral run. Are you recommending just taking it daily regardless if you're running an oral or not?

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After what Jake just told me, I suggest just taking it after your oral run. If while running your oral you experience something you're not supposed to just drop it and hop on the TUDCA.


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[Androman]

Maybe a link too a good TUDCA brand and supplier as all supplaments dont have the concentrations they claim or even the ingredients for that matter . wich one do you like and where do you get it

I just ordered this one. You can google TUDCA and it'll be the first one to come out in shopping section or something

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[Androman]

Every time I add orals into a cycle, i just get lethargic from it.

Yes that's the first thing I experienced when bumping my drol to 100mg. I never experienced this with any other oral like winstrol dbol or var but then again I never ran any of them at a 100mg total. Have you cheek your liver enzymes and do u take proper detoxification after your oral run


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[Androman]

This is a great topic and maybe time for all of us to go into retrospect. Many years ago when in college I was a blazing fast WR. Problem was that I knew that once I caught the ball there would be two big mo fos at 250lbs waiting to smash my 175lb frame. Consequently I caught about 90% of my passes. I hoped to turn pro, but my dad pulled me aside one day, one of those special Dad talks, and told me the truth. I thought I was going to hear "this is the cycle to make the NFL". If he would have said look if you do a test/deca/tren/halo/dbol cycle you will get drafted, I would have jumped all over it. Instead I got a dose of tough love.

Now I make a living by sitting on my ass as a human resource director. I am not going to the wwe, ufc, olympics,or nfl. Therefore I look over my cycle carefully.
I make no money because I am buffed and ripped..nothing, nada. Therefore I take no risks. I also liked winstrol, but when I first heard of liver toxins, and felt lethargic on it I canned it.

I am not so much a BB as many of you are, and we all may have different goals, but if there is no fortune to made why take any risk?

I never did venture into the heavy gear like tren,dbol,halo,adrol etc. My cycles are 250 test, 150 deca, and 600 of either primo or eq. That is it, all it has ever been, and will always be that way. Of course many people of the ordinary world would think that I am crazy too. So we all have to decide.

Just my humble opin, but I do not see the need for orals,or any heavies. My fav...NO SIDES, and feeling great!

This was a nice meal of food for thought. I'm not a competitive bodybuilder, or any of which you posted above. I'm sure going this trenbolone run will be my last because in a couple of weeks I am going to be taking EMT classes & will set off my actual career in that field and I know for a fact I wouldn't be able to take care of people with a clear and peaceful mind while running something as strong as this. As a debt collector, yeah it's okay. Shit you sometimes need the aggression when you're asking a lawyer for a $5 copay from 2007 lol. But I think most of my cycles will just consist of test NPP and masteron prop or primo.


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[Androman]

Ive been doing tons of research on Orals, and it seems to me that the Toxicity issues are way overblown. Study after study with Anadrol shows most people don't even go out of the Normal range on there Liver values with 4 weeks of use. German research shows that Alt values only start rising outside of normal for Tbol after a years continued use. Drinking a beer a day is far worse for your liver then Oral use IMO.

Yea it's overblown but until the day it happens to you you'll start to think "oh shit okay I better take it easy". I had this mindset too, until I couldn't take a dump lol.


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[Androman]

Let's put things in perspective. Orals have been used since before the 60's, and have a pretty good track record. The studies that show no liver enzyme elevation are usually flawed because they do not stay elevated, and just like alcohol if you do not drink for 12 hours your enzymes are back to normal. Elevated enzymes do not mean liver damage or death, but simply that the liver had a struggle. When you feel lethargic then you are temporatily tired and will re group. You always get over that hangover even when your enzymes went sky high. The liver is a very tough organ.
I would say tylenol can kill you quicker that orals, and certainly booze is the worst.
Let's just try to keep everything in perspective, so that we can make intelligent decisions. Also as far as I know there is nothing that you can take that will lessen the battle between liver and oral. It cannot be proven either way. Only liver biopsy or autopsy can prove anything. The argument over supplements working or not, or orals hurting the liver or not ,cannot really be proven one way or the other. You can live long and feel good yet still have a damaged liver.It is the percent of damage that can become a problem.

There will be a time in your life that orals will make you feel shitty, and you will swear them off. You will feel some toll they take on an older system. Just like booze..I used to be able to down a few and have fun but now I just get groggy and tired, so I do not do it anymore. Same with orals..I simply do not need them.

Everyone makes their own decision, so if you feel informed and ok with orals then go for it...I surely did!

http://livertox.nih.gov/AndrogenicSteroids.htm

It never dawned on me that after the cessation of orals, youre liver enzymes will go back to normal but it makes sense....and yes, orals have been around for a while. The first being methandrostenolone in 1958, you know this though Im sure, I just love telling my friends the story of the two germans who made the first synthetic form of testosterone by extracting the actual hormone from urine and then synthesizing it, (not to mention they won the noble prize in chemistry for this) to John Zieglar and the drunk Russian hence the innovation of DIANABOL....god who doesnt love dbol lol

 

[BigJay23]

A product I like a lot to help to keep me feeling good is rich piana liver and organ support


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[RickRock]

Just use good judgment. When you want the extra crazy edge don't get it from orals. That's a stupid thing to seek out anyway on its own but don't turn to orals to change the game cause you will just fuck yourself up 90% of the time.

Here's what I'm doing personally. Came across an old prohormone. A good one. Like a really good one. Shits nuts I love it. I would buy it by the crate. Well as much as I love it I'm on week 3 almost and my appetite just died. I'm feeling lethargic. You know... the usual stuff.

Now here is an example of listen to your body. Of course I wanna continue but fuck man its not worth it haha. Once the sides hit, back off. Stop trying to push through it. When you push it, you will suffer.

Be reasonable and listen to your body. That's the best thing to do.

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I think this is a good way of looking at things, you should always listen to your body, and do what it tells you to. I followed a similar approach with anadrol during my last run. I dropped it after three weeks when the appetite decrease and lethargy started hitting bad. My body told me it was time so I quit.


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[RickRock]

I just ordered this one. You can google TUDCA and it'll be the first one to come out in shopping section or something

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I've used that exact one before many times. It's a great product


(PM me for a price list for Biotech Labs and 10% discount)

 

[Androman]

I think this is a good way of looking at things, you should always listen to your body, and do what it tells you to. I followed a similar approach with anadrol during my last run. I dropped it after three weeks when the appetite decrease and lethargy started hitting bad. My body told me it was time so I quit.


(PM me for a price list for Biotech Labs and 10% discount)

Yes anadrol is NOT A JOKE. it can cause serious havoc on the body, once something takes a turn you must listen to your body and drop it. Glad you're smart enough to understand what was going on Rick. Who knows what would've happened even if you decided to push it for one more week.


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[TotalPackage]

Probably the best liver thread I've seen in a very long time. Because of all the input and activity on this one! Thanks everyone!

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[TX TERROR]

Yeah that's part of the game. Take care of your body and your body will take care of you. Once things start taking a turn that's when you have to drop your ego & pay attention to what's going on inside you. What prob hormone was it? I never really messes with PHs, but man this drol had me benching 365 for 3. That was a PR. last chest day when completely off the anadrol, I still manage to get it up but for only a double...I really don't want to lose that weight on the bar. My whole family started asking me if I'm "injecting" lol I was getting too swelled up. Peaked at 227.9lbs @ only 5'9. Not relatively lean tho, idrc for that at the moment but By far my favorite cycle for strength power & mass.


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Pheraplex lol. Shits retarded man. I never mess with PH's either but I'd take it over superdrol or anything for sure. Till the sides set it. Then it's like "nope! Fuck it" haha.

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[Jake]

Ahh so not so much liver damage but liver malfunctions which if ignored can lead to damaging of the hepatocytes, As for the combo; no not really this was my second run with anadrol. I don't drink or even touch caffeine for that matter. I have been sober for about two years, nor do I take anticholesterol medications, I actually have really good cholesterol. Within the third to fourth week of my trenbolone use, my total cholesterol was at 131.... I was just popping 2 anadrol 50s a day. I was taking only 50mg for the first week & I felt great but when I took another everything felt like it was going down hill. I started feeling lethargic, light depression here and there and the loss of appetite (try forcing feeding yourself dry chicken) Sucks because I really enjoyed the strength gains and how much I filled out my clothes but it wasn't worth the whole negatives. I already ordered TUDCA & will use it for detoxification. Sticking to Tbol or Var from now on.


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Well you could give the drol another try at half the dose, and if you do then use tudca,then start about 4 months out and them immediately after ending the orals.