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Test/estrogen/sex drive question

Total test- 582 ng/dl
Calc'd Free T 143 pg/ml
SHBG- 54 nmol/L (using my range, is 11 - 50)
albumin- 4.4 g/dL

Free T: 8.97 ng/dL = 1.54 %
Bioavailable T: 215 ng/dL = 37 %

The equation is way, way too complicated so just use this. That's quite low, also.

http://www.issam.ch/freetesto.htm


You can compare this with my last numbers:

Total Test- 1411.2 ng/dl
Calc'd Free T 1631 pmol/L
SHBG- 11 nmol/L (range is 11 - 50)
albumin- 46 g/L

Free T: 48.6 ng/dL = 3.44 %
Bioavailable T: 1216 ng/dL = 86.2 %

Ideally someone on TRT for instance is looking to get from usually their existing 2% up to 3%, or even 4% free. And this is where people get caught up.
Total Test means nothing if it's all bound up in SHBG, as you found out when you were over 1,000ng/dl. It can't do anything. And naturally, it doesn't sound like a big difference, does it? Going from 2% - 3%. But that's actually a 50% increase. Going from 2% to 4% would be a 100% increase for example, DOUBLING your free testosterone potential, depending on your total. HUGE differences.

Compare our Free T's. I have a little over double your Free T percentage. Yet compare our bioavailable. It's not a little over double. It's around 5 and a half times more.
If I had your SHBG, my free test would be 26.8 ng/dL = 1.90 %, even though I'm out of range high on total T.
If you had my SHBG your free test would be 19.1 ng/dL = 3.28 %.
Even if you lowered your SHBG to 22, your free test would be 15.2 ng/dL = 2.62 %, so call that around a 65% increase.
 
Right, I understand that even just 1% is a pretty big increase. But, the bioavailable T difference is so huge because your total T is much higher though right? If I had your same stats at my total T level, the bioavailable T still wouldn't even be close since the TT level is low.

Is there anything besides Proviron that lowers SHBG? Also, even with Proviron or anything else, that's just temporary and just gonna hop back to the same levels when you're off right?
 
Of sorts, yes. My TT is above high normal due to peaks and troughs, and my SHBG is low normal because of TRT and using SHBG lowering compounds. Proviron and Masteron are the only ones I know of. Others can have some affinity but usually nowhere near as much as those.

582 TT isn't that low, it's not bad, but it's about how much of it is working. There is a T to Free T ratio just like there is an ideal T to E2 ratio, no matter what the numbers are.

Say if you had my SHBG, you'd be bioavailable 457 ng/dL = 78.6 %, out of 582.

So more than 3/4's of all the Test in you would all be working doing something. You'd feel better than someone who had TT of 2,500 but that was all bound up in SHBG leaving them with 1% free.



Peak Testosterone has a great list for lowering SHBG naturally. Plucked from them below. Boron works very well apparently, I've seen a lot of the studies there.

1) Testosterone and Lowering Estradiol. On this page, I'll show some ways to uniquely raise free testosterone levels. However, the most straightforward way to raise free testosterone levels is by raising total testosterone levels. In general, as you raise total testosterone, free testosterone tends to rise with it. I have already created a page with 40+ Ways to Raise Testosterone Naturally. Again, though, on this page we'll look at some ways to raise your percentage of free testosterone (out of total testosterone).

Similarly, if you can lower your estradiol levels, you can generally get a boost in total and free testosterone. Research shows that normal aging as well as an increase in adipose - that's a nice way of saying fat - tissue leads to ever increasing levels of the estrogens. And here's the key: increasing estrogen leads to increasing SHBG, which will lower your free testosterone as a percentage of your total. Please read the important link on How to Control Estrogen.

2) Protein-to-Carbohydrate Ratio. The protein/carbohydrate ratio has an interesting effect on free testosterone and SHBG. Several studies have shown that increasing carbs versus protein boosts total testosterone. However, before you start pounding granola bars, one study found that increasing the protein/carb ratio not only increased total testosterone but also SHBG. [4] This means that free testosterone may not have been increased significantly because of SHBG's opposing effects. (Increasing the protein to carbohydrate ratio also increased cortisol, a fact I cover elsewhere on this site.)

3) DHEA. Researchers examined untrained young and middle males and found that giving them 50 mg of DHEA daily raised their free testosterone significantly. They also noted that normally HIIT substantially lowers testosterone, but with the DHEA no such decrease in free testosterone at least occurred. [7] There are warnings out there that DHEA can increase estradiol disproportionately, but I have seen no actual research evidence of this. The real concern with DHEA is more brain-related. Ray Peat, in particular, has noted:

"One study has found that the only hormone abnormality in a groupt of Alzheimers patients' brains was an excess of DHEA. In cell culture, DHEA can cause changes in glial cells resembling those seen in the aging brain. These observations suggest that DHEA should be used with caution. Supplements of pregnenolone and thyroid seem to be the safest way to optimize DHEA production." In spite of this, DHEA seems to be widely used in the alternative and anti-aging communities. Do your own research and talk to your doc is all I can say.

4) Medications and Alcohol. If you have high SHBG and low free testosterone, one of the first checks you should do is looking at any prescriptions that you have: many medications can effect SHBG. Remember that SHBG is made in the liver and most medications effect the liver. Common drugs that often raise SHBG are sedatives, antihypertensiaves, tranquilizers as well as alcohol.

5) Stinging Nettle. Another way to lower SHBG is through an herb called Stinging Nettle. Stringing Nettle is widely prescribed in Europe for BPH ( Benign Prostate Hypertrophy). Several studies have documented Stinging Nettle's SHBG-lowering powers [2] and, so far, Stinging Nettle has an excellent safety profile. However, its side effect profile is worth mentioning: Stinging Nettle also blocks the action of the enzyme that converts testosterone to DHT. Some would argue that this is good since DHT is associated with things like hair loss and prostate problems. However, sometimes, in sensitive individuals, side effects include erectile dysfuntion and a decreased amount of semen. Plus, DHT is a critical androgen for males and very important to libido and so Stinging Nettle is questionable in my opinion because of it. I should point out that there are no studies, as far as I know, that actually show Stinging Nettle increasing free testosterone: more research needs to be done.

6) Tongkat Ali (LJ 100). One study of a specific extract (LJ 100) of Tongkat Ali found that "SHBG decreased 66%, and the Free Testosterone Index escalated 73%." [9][10] I have seen claims that LJ100 is the only extract that it standardized for a high percentage of eurypeptides, the ingredient responsible for the above. CAUTION: Tongkat Ali can raise IGF-1 and should be monitored in those 40+ in my opinion: you do not want to be too high in this hormone, as it is associated with prostate and other cancers. (Being too low has been identified with increased cancer risk.)

7) Boron. This supplement produced a significant drop in SHBG in a recent study, which lead to a 28% increase and 39% drop in free testosterone and total estradiol, respectively. [6] This is a nice change in the testosterone-to-estradiol and should help a guy feel significantly better. See my link on Boron and Testosterone for more details.

8) Insulin Resistance. Insulin resistance will lower your SHBG [1] and, therefore, in the short term probably raise free testosterone. So let's all get insulin resistant and live happily ever after, right? Wrong! Insulin resistance is a death warrant. (Read this link on Metabolic Syndrome for more details.)

9) Sugar and Corn Syrup. These bad boys can lower SHBG. Unfortunately, these can lead to insulin resistance, inflammation, advanced glycation end products and many other nasty things. How does it do all this? Researchers have discovered that sugar will also lower SHBG, because it increases fat synthesis in the liver, which in turn shuts off the gene involved in SHBG synthesis. Bottom line: stay away from sugar and corn syrup even though in the short term they may raise your free testosterone.

10) Vitamin D. Vitamin D was found in a 2009 study of about 2,300 adult males to lower SHBG and increase both free and total testosterone. [3]

11) Magnesium. Research shows that magnesium can bind to SHBG and give a man a little higher bioavailable and free testosterone. I doubt this is a big effect, but it's cheap and easy to try. See my page on Testosterone and Magnesium for more details.
 
Of sorts, yes. My TT is above high normal due to peaks and troughs, and my SHBG is low normal because of TRT and using SHBG lowering compounds. Proviron and Masteron are the only ones I know of. Others can have some affinity but usually nowhere near as much as those.

582 TT isn't that low, it's not bad, but it's about how much of it is working. There is a T to Free T ratio just like there is an ideal T to E2 ratio, no matter what the numbers are.

Say if you had my SHBG, you'd be bioavailable 457 ng/dL = 78.6 %, out of 582.

So more than 3/4's of all the Test in you would all be working doing something. You'd feel better than someone who had TT of 2,500 but that was all bound up in SHBG leaving them with 1% free.



Peak Testosterone has a great list for lowering SHBG naturally. Plucked from them below. Boron works very well apparently, I've seen a lot of the studies there.

1) Testosterone and Lowering Estradiol. On this page, I'll show some ways to uniquely raise free testosterone levels. However, the most straightforward way to raise free testosterone levels is by raising total testosterone levels. In general, as you raise total testosterone, free testosterone tends to rise with it. I have already created a page with 40+ Ways to Raise Testosterone Naturally. Again, though, on this page we'll look at some ways to raise your percentage of free testosterone (out of total testosterone).

Similarly, if you can lower your estradiol levels, you can generally get a boost in total and free testosterone. Research shows that normal aging as well as an increase in adipose - that's a nice way of saying fat - tissue leads to ever increasing levels of the estrogens. And here's the key: increasing estrogen leads to increasing SHBG, which will lower your free testosterone as a percentage of your total. Please read the important link on How to Control Estrogen.

2) Protein-to-Carbohydrate Ratio. The protein/carbohydrate ratio has an interesting effect on free testosterone and SHBG. Several studies have shown that increasing carbs versus protein boosts total testosterone. However, before you start pounding granola bars, one study found that increasing the protein/carb ratio not only increased total testosterone but also SHBG. [4] This means that free testosterone may not have been increased significantly because of SHBG's opposing effects. (Increasing the protein to carbohydrate ratio also increased cortisol, a fact I cover elsewhere on this site.)

3) DHEA. Researchers examined untrained young and middle males and found that giving them 50 mg of DHEA daily raised their free testosterone significantly. They also noted that normally HIIT substantially lowers testosterone, but with the DHEA no such decrease in free testosterone at least occurred. [7] There are warnings out there that DHEA can increase estradiol disproportionately, but I have seen no actual research evidence of this. The real concern with DHEA is more brain-related. Ray Peat, in particular, has noted:

"One study has found that the only hormone abnormality in a groupt of Alzheimers patients' brains was an excess of DHEA. In cell culture, DHEA can cause changes in glial cells resembling those seen in the aging brain. These observations suggest that DHEA should be used with caution. Supplements of pregnenolone and thyroid seem to be the safest way to optimize DHEA production." In spite of this, DHEA seems to be widely used in the alternative and anti-aging communities. Do your own research and talk to your doc is all I can say.

4) Medications and Alcohol. If you have high SHBG and low free testosterone, one of the first checks you should do is looking at any prescriptions that you have: many medications can effect SHBG. Remember that SHBG is made in the liver and most medications effect the liver. Common drugs that often raise SHBG are sedatives, antihypertensiaves, tranquilizers as well as alcohol.

5) Stinging Nettle. Another way to lower SHBG is through an herb called Stinging Nettle. Stringing Nettle is widely prescribed in Europe for BPH ( Benign Prostate Hypertrophy). Several studies have documented Stinging Nettle's SHBG-lowering powers [2] and, so far, Stinging Nettle has an excellent safety profile. However, its side effect profile is worth mentioning: Stinging Nettle also blocks the action of the enzyme that converts testosterone to DHT. Some would argue that this is good since DHT is associated with things like hair loss and prostate problems. However, sometimes, in sensitive individuals, side effects include erectile dysfuntion and a decreased amount of semen. Plus, DHT is a critical androgen for males and very important to libido and so Stinging Nettle is questionable in my opinion because of it. I should point out that there are no studies, as far as I know, that actually show Stinging Nettle increasing free testosterone: more research needs to be done.

6) Tongkat Ali (LJ 100). One study of a specific extract (LJ 100) of Tongkat Ali found that "SHBG decreased 66%, and the Free Testosterone Index escalated 73%." [9][10] I have seen claims that LJ100 is the only extract that it standardized for a high percentage of eurypeptides, the ingredient responsible for the above. CAUTION: Tongkat Ali can raise IGF-1 and should be monitored in those 40+ in my opinion: you do not want to be too high in this hormone, as it is associated with prostate and other cancers. (Being too low has been identified with increased cancer risk.)

7) Boron. This supplement produced a significant drop in SHBG in a recent study, which lead to a 28% increase and 39% drop in free testosterone and total estradiol, respectively. [6] This is a nice change in the testosterone-to-estradiol and should help a guy feel significantly better. See my link on Boron and Testosterone for more details.

8) Insulin Resistance. Insulin resistance will lower your SHBG [1] and, therefore, in the short term probably raise free testosterone. So let's all get insulin resistant and live happily ever after, right? Wrong! Insulin resistance is a death warrant. (Read this link on Metabolic Syndrome for more details.)

9) Sugar and Corn Syrup. These bad boys can lower SHBG. Unfortunately, these can lead to insulin resistance, inflammation, advanced glycation end products and many other nasty things. How does it do all this? Researchers have discovered that sugar will also lower SHBG, because it increases fat synthesis in the liver, which in turn shuts off the gene involved in SHBG synthesis. Bottom line: stay away from sugar and corn syrup even though in the short term they may raise your free testosterone.

10) Vitamin D. Vitamin D was found in a 2009 study of about 2,300 adult males to lower SHBG and increase both free and total testosterone. [3]

11) Magnesium. Research shows that magnesium can bind to SHBG and give a man a little higher bioavailable and free testosterone. I doubt this is a big effect, but it's cheap and easy to try. See my page on Testosterone and Magnesium for more details.


excellent post... great examples and all can be of some benefit... proviron does work wonders on shbg levels and they will not just elevate once you discontinue... they will stay level until you use something that elevates them again... it is definitely my "go to" if there is any sort of shbg issue... 50 mg day is generally where i stay with it...
 
Of sorts, yes. My TT is above high normal due to peaks and troughs, and my SHBG is low normal because of TRT and using SHBG lowering compounds. Proviron and Masteron are the only ones I know of. Others can have some affinity but usually nowhere near as much as those.

582 TT isn't that low, it's not bad, but it's about how much of it is working. There is a T to Free T ratio just like there is an ideal T to E2 ratio, no matter what the numbers are.

Say if you had my SHBG, you'd be bioavailable 457 ng/dL = 78.6 %, out of 582.

So more than 3/4's of all the Test in you would all be working doing something. You'd feel better than someone who had TT of 2,500 but that was all bound up in SHBG leaving them with 1% free.



Peak Testosterone has a great list for lowering SHBG naturally. Plucked from them below. Boron works very well apparently, I've seen a lot of the studies there.

1) Testosterone and Lowering Estradiol. On this page, I'll show some ways to uniquely raise free testosterone levels. However, the most straightforward way to raise free testosterone levels is by raising total testosterone levels. In general, as you raise total testosterone, free testosterone tends to rise with it. I have already created a page with 40+ Ways to Raise Testosterone Naturally. Again, though, on this page we'll look at some ways to raise your percentage of free testosterone (out of total testosterone).

Similarly, if you can lower your estradiol levels, you can generally get a boost in total and free testosterone. Research shows that normal aging as well as an increase in adipose - that's a nice way of saying fat - tissue leads to ever increasing levels of the estrogens. And here's the key: increasing estrogen leads to increasing SHBG, which will lower your free testosterone as a percentage of your total. Please read the important link on How to Control Estrogen.

2) Protein-to-Carbohydrate Ratio. The protein/carbohydrate ratio has an interesting effect on free testosterone and SHBG. Several studies have shown that increasing carbs versus protein boosts total testosterone. However, before you start pounding granola bars, one study found that increasing the protein/carb ratio not only increased total testosterone but also SHBG. [4] This means that free testosterone may not have been increased significantly because of SHBG's opposing effects. (Increasing the protein to carbohydrate ratio also increased cortisol, a fact I cover elsewhere on this site.)

3) DHEA. Researchers examined untrained young and middle males and found that giving them 50 mg of DHEA daily raised their free testosterone significantly. They also noted that normally HIIT substantially lowers testosterone, but with the DHEA no such decrease in free testosterone at least occurred. [7] There are warnings out there that DHEA can increase estradiol disproportionately, but I have seen no actual research evidence of this. The real concern with DHEA is more brain-related. Ray Peat, in particular, has noted:

"One study has found that the only hormone abnormality in a groupt of Alzheimers patients' brains was an excess of DHEA. In cell culture, DHEA can cause changes in glial cells resembling those seen in the aging brain. These observations suggest that DHEA should be used with caution. Supplements of pregnenolone and thyroid seem to be the safest way to optimize DHEA production." In spite of this, DHEA seems to be widely used in the alternative and anti-aging communities. Do your own research and talk to your doc is all I can say.

4) Medications and Alcohol. If you have high SHBG and low free testosterone, one of the first checks you should do is looking at any prescriptions that you have: many medications can effect SHBG. Remember that SHBG is made in the liver and most medications effect the liver. Common drugs that often raise SHBG are sedatives, antihypertensiaves, tranquilizers as well as alcohol.

5) Stinging Nettle. Another way to lower SHBG is through an herb called Stinging Nettle. Stringing Nettle is widely prescribed in Europe for BPH ( Benign Prostate Hypertrophy). Several studies have documented Stinging Nettle's SHBG-lowering powers [2] and, so far, Stinging Nettle has an excellent safety profile. However, its side effect profile is worth mentioning: Stinging Nettle also blocks the action of the enzyme that converts testosterone to DHT. Some would argue that this is good since DHT is associated with things like hair loss and prostate problems. However, sometimes, in sensitive individuals, side effects include erectile dysfuntion and a decreased amount of semen. Plus, DHT is a critical androgen for males and very important to libido and so Stinging Nettle is questionable in my opinion because of it. I should point out that there are no studies, as far as I know, that actually show Stinging Nettle increasing free testosterone: more research needs to be done.

6) Tongkat Ali (LJ 100). One study of a specific extract (LJ 100) of Tongkat Ali found that "SHBG decreased 66%, and the Free Testosterone Index escalated 73%." [9][10] I have seen claims that LJ100 is the only extract that it standardized for a high percentage of eurypeptides, the ingredient responsible for the above. CAUTION: Tongkat Ali can raise IGF-1 and should be monitored in those 40+ in my opinion: you do not want to be too high in this hormone, as it is associated with prostate and other cancers. (Being too low has been identified with increased cancer risk.)

7) Boron. This supplement produced a significant drop in SHBG in a recent study, which lead to a 28% increase and 39% drop in free testosterone and total estradiol, respectively. [6] This is a nice change in the testosterone-to-estradiol and should help a guy feel significantly better. See my link on Boron and Testosterone for more details.

8) Insulin Resistance. Insulin resistance will lower your SHBG [1] and, therefore, in the short term probably raise free testosterone. So let's all get insulin resistant and live happily ever after, right? Wrong! Insulin resistance is a death warrant. (Read this link on Metabolic Syndrome for more details.)

9) Sugar and Corn Syrup. These bad boys can lower SHBG. Unfortunately, these can lead to insulin resistance, inflammation, advanced glycation end products and many other nasty things. How does it do all this? Researchers have discovered that sugar will also lower SHBG, because it increases fat synthesis in the liver, which in turn shuts off the gene involved in SHBG synthesis. Bottom line: stay away from sugar and corn syrup even though in the short term they may raise your free testosterone.

10) Vitamin D. Vitamin D was found in a 2009 study of about 2,300 adult males to lower SHBG and increase both free and total testosterone. [3]

11) Magnesium. Research shows that magnesium can bind to SHBG and give a man a little higher bioavailable and free testosterone. I doubt this is a big effect, but it's cheap and easy to try. See my page on Testosterone and Magnesium for more details.

This is a very good wealth of info here brother! Excellent post
 
Sooooooooo she initially said she wants to see where the prolactin is in 6 months. After I said in one way or another that the time frame is too long, she said 3 months. She's basically only concerned if it's still elevated to check for a tumor. Afterward I said, well isn't high prolactin correlated w/ my problems? She said yes, that elevated prolactin can cause other hormones to be out of whack, which would in turn cause my problems. But since they were fine, she sees that as no issue.

Looks like I gotta take a trip over to enhanced athletes place, and get some liquid caber.

Kidding lol. I'm gonna implement a few of those herbal supplements that help with lowering shbg and the pruriens for prolactin for a month or so, and see how I feel and go from there.
 
Just got my prolactin checked again, it was 16.69.... Going to see what the urologist will say about it now since it was technically out of the range but now it's def. outta the range completely.

What were u running that prolactin was that high?


Tren Replacement Therapy
 
There's a guy on another male hormone forum - was feeling shit. Went to his doctor for a blood test. Had never run ANYTHING. His Prolactin was 200. No phyiscal sides apart from of course, ED and feeling like utter crap.

Sometimes, shit just happens! LOL.
 
Most people would have expected lactation and all kinds of stuff way before then, but this guy didn't have a single physical sign besides being constantly tired and as mentioned, terrible ED, zero libido. At that level too your Dopamine would be so tanked that you wouldn't really find much joy in anything. Not a nice way to live. Caber fixed him right up.
 
Hey, so I started adding 2 things to my regimen. Tongkat Ali and Maca. It's the second day i've taken them together, with my multivitamin. Today I noticed I have what I'm guessing are back pumps/leg pumps. Like, I've had this happen once before, but it was worse because i'm pretty sure it was caused by bending my lower back way too much during an activity and it caused cramps which affected my legs where I couldn't sit or lay down without constantly moving them around, and found it difficult to sit up straight.

This is a milder version of that. Not as bad, but the exact same thing. I don't know if its those herbs that mightve caused it or something else. Anyone ever heard of something like this? Maybe can't take certain things together?
 
Sounds pretty coincidental to me dude, both are pretty run of the mill natural supplements, don't think they'd be causing anything like that.

Probably just something you did or a way you moved. I've got a bad back and when I irritate it, I get KILLER shin and ankle pain, with almost NO back pain at all. Nerves do some funky shit! LOL.
 
Yea, I'm guessing maybe when I trained legs it did something. It mainly aches now in my lower back and hams when I'm stretching my hams. Tight muscles or something maybe.
 
This supports my opinion of Exemestane being a weak AI.
Should've went with Arimidex as the doctor had suggested.
I don't know one TRT clinic that writes exemestane tbh.
 
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