older guys and orals

[Kdog_50+]

I'm 52, soon to be 53. I just completed a 12 week 250 test/250 deca cycle (really wanted to avoid sides and ease into something other than Test). I tried tbol as a kick start due to mild (reletively speaking) side effectts and wanted more clean gains. The letheragy after 3 weeks at 40mg (split into 2 20mg doses per day) were killer for me. I used a liv52 supplement and a kidney supplement. May question is, have any other older users had issues with orals? I liked the "kick start" effect on strength and size, just not the feeling physically. I felt like i could lay down and nap any time, crazy. I want to try again in fall, wondering if there is any other "protection or help" or is this just a don't push it at my age.
I'm 6'3...223 and right at 15% BF. I actually lost 15 lbs and increased strength. Happy withy overall results. Just takes a little for Deca to kick in. I have Deca, didnt want to purchase NPP and pin more frequently.
My goal is to still look as good as i can, keeping reletively lean and lift heavy with the young guys. My BP is good 120/78 and i do pretty well on diet.

 

[Judgeno1]

Interested to see the feedback given. I am 39 this year and thinking about some orals myself. Been away from gear for quite a few years mainly because my insurance now sux with Obamacare changes and won't pay for me shit. Plus I'm in a new town and peer to peer is risky. So i have been using designers and other supplements but obviously nothing like going to the doc for Cyp and Walgreen to fill. Thanks for a interesting post!

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[Dr.JJ]

Hey there Kdog, I'm almost 50 and around the same, maybe slightly higher, BF, except I'm 5'11 and 210. What I've used for a kick start is injectable Dbol or adrol. There are some sources that have blends with short esters/long esters too. Have you tried Sustanon or T400?(test blend). Either of those work really well every 5 days. Nice to see some older dudes still pumping iron. Good luck.

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[KRT]

In theory if you liver is functioning as it should, even at your age you should be able to maintain relatively proper liver function and acceptable liver enyzme levels assuming you use the PROPER supplements. I see a lot of people back liv.52, and I have used it, but NEVER ALONE to cover me. Always in concert with NAC, Milk Thistle, TUDCA (medically studied peer reviewed and universally proven/accepted liver support)

Do you have pre cycle baseline AST/ALT liver values?

Have you tried anything else orally? How did that treat you if so?

 

[mendogonzo]

K-dog- Something to think about, I'm 47 soon 48 and have an illness that doctors have dignosed as different things. Besides joint pain and my testosterone tanking it has developed into like a chronic fatigigue and really screwed up my sleep patterns. I couldnt adjust my sleep to normal for over a year. I couldn't sleep til like 3:30 in the morning and then fall asleep til like 10:00/10:30. I told Dr. Tried ambien and I'd fall asleep for an hour and be up, tried lunesta didn't work. So I thought what if I tried it in reverse! Worked my way up to 600mgs of caffeine in the morning, was up but still real fatigued. Saw private label had phentermine its for weight loss but gives you energy too got it last week and been taking 1 capsule, guess what, my sleep is getting more normal!!! It gives you energy, but not anxiety, heart racing jittery, like Clem, this is nice and subtle and lasts from morning 12 hours and When it wears off I'm ready to sleep. Plus if your trying to cut weight or tighten up for summer makes it easier to tighten the diet up some without suffering. My wife had been taking the prescription which is 37.5 Mgs. and she said these seem to have a better time release which she didn't expect from a capsule. So maybe give that a try when you run something that makes you lethargic? For anyone else if you are really trying to eat for size don't do this, it really cuts the appetite like nothing else.


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[KRT]

K-dog- Something to think about, I'm 47 soon 48 and have an illness that doctors have dignosed as different things. Besides joint pain and my testosterone tanking it has developed into like a chronic fatigigue and really screwed up my sleep patterns. I couldnt adjust my sleep to normal for over a year. I couldn't sleep til like 3:30 in the morning and then fall asleep til like 10:00/10:30. I told Dr. Tried ambien and I'd fall asleep for an hour and be up, tried lunesta didn't work. So I thought what if I tried it in reverse! Worked my way up to 600mgs of caffeine in the morning, was up but still real fatigued. Saw private label had phentermine its for weight loss but gives you energy too got it last week and been taking 1 capsule, guess what, my sleep is getting more normal!!! It gives you energy, but not anxiety, heart racing jittery, like Clem, this is nice and subtle and lasts from morning 12 hours and When it wears off I'm ready to sleep. Plus if your trying to cut weight or tighten up for summer makes it easier to tighten the diet up some without suffering. My wife had been taking the prescription which is 37.5 Mgs. and she said these seem to have a better time release which she didn't expect from a capsule. So maybe give that a try when you run something that makes you lethargic? For anyone else if you are really trying to eat for size don't do this, it really cuts the appetite like nothing else.


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I wouldn't recommend substituted amphetamines to anyone to "cut or trim up" and using them to put a bandaid over your irregular sleep cycle isn't sustainable. Tolerance will develop, side effects will increase and the stimulant you used to fix your insomnia/hypersomnia is going to be the new secondary cause of it.

 

[Kdog_50+]

Just the tbol. Just researched toxicity and risk vs benefit. But honestly, always been a bit lite weight drinking also. Maybe it's just my liver??? No, I didn't get any special libel panels. I will try better protection in fall though.

 

[Kdog_50+]

No, I don't want more drugs in body haha. Sleep isn't an issue. I go to bed early and wake at 4am for 5am pre work workout. Obviously, 52 isn't 32 and recovery is tougher ...but as you get older, you have to find what works and what isn't worth the pain. I look around at guys my age with all kinds of health issues brought on by poor diet, alcohol, sedentary lifestyle...then have those people tell me steroids will kill you??? Are you fucking kidding me??? Low dose responsible use is what I practice...I plan on working out in my 60s and 70s.

 

[RickRock]

Lethargy can come with pretty much any toxic oral, as well as some other side effcts that dont make you feel all that great. It happens to me too, which is why I rarely ever use orals anymore. I much prefer to stick to Injectibles. Plus my liver thanks me

 

[DylanGemelli]

i run into this all the time as people age, they tend to respond much worse to orals and that could be from a variety of things but you have to think, as you age, your body has clearly been through far more abuse as opposed to when you are younger... over time, it clearly will not react the same and recovery with anything you do will be much more difficult... the beauty of sarms is that you can kickstart with them and avoid ALL of these issues... i would highly recommend taking a look at substituting them for orals if you are having issues...

 

[mendogonzo]

No, I don't want more drugs in body haha. Sleep isn't an issue. I go to bed early and wake at 4am for 5am pre work workout. Obviously, 52 isn't 32 and recovery is tougher ...but as you get older, you have to find what works and what isn't worth the pain. I look around at guys my age with all kinds of health issues brought on by poor diet, alcohol, sedentary lifestyle...then have those people tell me steroids will kill you??? Are you fucking kidding me??? Low dose responsible use is what I practice...I plan on working out in my 60s and 70s.

As I said in my post before, something to think about. I know sleep is not your problem, it's the lethargy from the oral you we're taking. It was just a suggestion, while you were taking the oral that made you lethargic. When your not using the oral you wouldn't need it as your energy should return to previous level. As also said one capsule which is half the Drs. Prescribed dose. It was a suggestion that has helped me to try to get my sleep into a normal pattern because this has been a long standing problem for which I have tried everything and have even gone through days where I couldn't sleep at all. So I had tried everything and thought about this in a reverse way to get myself up at a more normal time as sometimes I could sleep longer and could not reset my bodies clock. KRT kinda got onto me but it wasn't my first choice, this as I said has been going on for long time along with having a form of chronic fatigue along with pain that Doctors have been unable to figure out or have not believed my symptoms can be as intense as they are some have said it's fibromyalgia that was brought on after a traumatic event in which I was diagnosed with PTSD. Whatever it is the meds I was given for fibromyalgia I am hypersensitive to and tanked my testosterone to unbelievably low levels of which I was prescribed androgel at $600.00 a month that barely bumped my numbers but not even to low normal, I am now reading that the substance that is supposed to transfer the test through the skin into the body is inadequate at doing this so even when rubbing 10 grams a day through skin only a tiny amount actually passes into the body. This Is why I looked for other ways to TRT and found these sites. I have a long history of trying to have a better quality of life and since doctors have been not helpful and a lot of times made the situation worse. I always try the safest way to deal with the different problems associated with this illness. I was giving my advice to help you think through this problem and the level of frustration Ive had was just to save you from what I've experienced trying to improve my quality of life at times. But I don't see anyone criticizing the unreal Mgs. Tren guys take for sometimes years straight as "advice" and I see a lot of them trying to one up each other, I care and worry for them as a brotherhood, but I respect their choice as they know the risk but choose to experiment.


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[buen]

1. You don't need a "kickstart"
2. The benefit to side effect ratio of orals is not worth the trouble
3. I'm 65 ...never met an oral I liked other tha Proviron

 

[Flanex]

I'm 48 & only did one oral ever.It was Tbol back this past January.It made my BP spike too much.I had redface & headaches 24/7,no lethargy though.I never had BP problems in my life.It just didn't agree with me.I dropped it after two weeks.I may or may not try another oral.I'm actually fine with just doing injectables.I might get some test base for a pre-workout once in awhile.

 

[Dr.JJ]

I'm 48 & only did one oral ever.It was Tbol back this past January.It made my BP spike too much.I had redface & headaches 24/7,no lethargy though.I never had BP problems in my life.It just didn't agree with me.I dropped it after two weeks.I may or may not try another oral.I'm actually fine with just doing injectables.I might get some test base for a pre-workout once in awhile.

Same here only with Dbol. I'm doing well on oral Stan, but like the oil base version the best. BTW, I've been using some TNE here and there and let me tell you, it is the best PW I've ever used hands down.

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[Flanex]

Same here only with Dbol. I'm doing well on oral Stan, but like the oil base version the best. BTW, I've been using some TNE here and there and let me tell you, it is the best PW I've ever used hands down.

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Yea I had some test/tren base awhile back & KILLED it in the gym.I loved that stuff!The "Stan" is winny right?I'm afraid to do that cause I have enough joint pain as it is.