Low dose test E (70-125 mg) + deca (200 mg)
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You are being ridiculous. You dont have to run a "huge test cycle" or a "test and tren cycle" for your first time. If you weren't so damn hardheaded and you actually listened to reason with those who are trying to help you then you would see that NONE of that is recommended here for a first cycle.
Your idea of running test, deca, and tbol your first cycle is just as stupid as running a "huge test dose" or a "test and tren" exactly as you describe. Those are your words, not ours. If you asked us we would tell you to run test enan or test cyp anywhere between 250-500mg depending on your goals. 500 being at the very high end for a first cycle, still is not where near a "huge" dose.
If you are really that worried listen to the other guys here and run test only 250-350mg a week. You have no idea how you will react to testosterone, or any of these drugs. But to me it seems you dont give a shit about what any of us have to say you just sound like you enjoy arguing. And if thats the case im out and ill probably be one of the last guys who responds to this thread. You'll go ahead and do what you want to when its all said and done. Good luck
"Huge" is subjective and what I consider "huge" might be a small, mild or high dose for some of you regulars, as you correctly put it.
Here is the thing: a 250 mg or bigger dose of test would raise my testosterone levels above 1,000 ng/dl, more than my natural levels of 700. Shit, 500 mg might even skyrocket it to over 2,000 ng/dl. More testosterone in my body equals more DHT, and more DHT which is the main cause of hair loss naturally means more hair loss. We both agree on this, correct, since this is basic science and there is no arguing this?
The low dose of test I'm proposing would not raise my testosterone that much, in fact, it might even lower it. Could it theoretically raise it above 700? Sure, depends on the person, but not very likely and I'm willing to risk it, and could just do a bloodwork later to be sure and pin a smaller dose next time.
In other words, keeping my testosterone in natural (or lower) levels and using deca would result in lesser hair loss than by using a 250 mg or bigger test-only cycle, because deca is not very androgenic compared to test (37:125 ratio compared to test's 100:100). Am I going to get the same gains as I would with a bigger test dose? Obviously not.
buen
Banned
Bro...you are so full of shit...for all your "research"...you know nothing!
I have tens of bloodwork results showing 1000ng/dL on 100mg per week
The difference between actual expirience and someone with none..you're so sure you have the answers..but you couldn't be farther from the truth...
You and your selective "research" supporting only what you are predisposed to believe
You ask for answers from users with 10's of years of real world expirience...but you argue dispute and generally come off as as a prick that already has the answers...so wtf are you doing here...really?
Because it sure isn't to learn anything
I have tens of bloodwork results showing 1000ng/dL on 100mg per week
The difference between actual expirience and someone with none..you're so sure you have the answers..but you couldn't be farther from the truth...
You and your selective "research" supporting only what you are predisposed to believe
You ask for answers from users with 10's of years of real world expirience...but you argue dispute and generally come off as as a prick that already has the answers...so wtf are you doing here...really?
Because it sure isn't to learn anything
I will agree with those above me. Unless your purpose was to regenerate connective tissue (which it's not) then your test should be higher than the anabolic I.e eq, deca, primo etc. and at less 200 mg that is not really enough to not only have no need for a pct or anti-estrogens/ progesterones, and for sure not even worth risking shutting off your own production of test. And at that dosage you'd be better off taking nothing. I understand being safe with things but you need enough to warrant doing it at all.
Now I'm assuming you meant d-bol? Or turinabol? Either one I would say no to only because it's your first cycle and you will never get the same awesome results! Don't waste it lol so no need to waste the money on a 17 alpha alkyl (peals in this case)
As far as the anti estrogens? Keep them on hand but no need to use unless you get sore nipples or really hate water retention ( however this adds to the gains not only itself but due to the increased pressure in the muscle adding to increased strength) .
Over the years as compared to 20 years ago I see guys miss using clomid. Clomid increases fsh thus increases sperm production in the Sertoli cells ( like hcg mimics lh and stimulates test production in leydig cells). It has very very very mild anti estrogen properties and thus should not be used for this. Simple old school pct for clomid with your hcg and you'll also notice you'll really need your nolvadex/ arimidex etc here. During the pct if you are wanting to get someone pregnant or just want to know you're making sperm again, take clomid here.
Final summation I like to use the formula from long ago that has worked well for many for first deca. Take 2 mg per pound of body weight and round it off for obvious reasons. Whatever that is, double it to get your test dose. ( hoping test enanthate or cyp or somethjng ...skill your leaks all together for now. Just suggestions... take care and glad to be back on here again
Now I'm assuming you meant d-bol? Or turinabol? Either one I would say no to only because it's your first cycle and you will never get the same awesome results! Don't waste it lol so no need to waste the money on a 17 alpha alkyl (peals in this case)
As far as the anti estrogens? Keep them on hand but no need to use unless you get sore nipples or really hate water retention ( however this adds to the gains not only itself but due to the increased pressure in the muscle adding to increased strength) .
Over the years as compared to 20 years ago I see guys miss using clomid. Clomid increases fsh thus increases sperm production in the Sertoli cells ( like hcg mimics lh and stimulates test production in leydig cells). It has very very very mild anti estrogen properties and thus should not be used for this. Simple old school pct for clomid with your hcg and you'll also notice you'll really need your nolvadex/ arimidex etc here. During the pct if you are wanting to get someone pregnant or just want to know you're making sperm again, take clomid here.
Final summation I like to use the formula from long ago that has worked well for many for first deca. Take 2 mg per pound of body weight and round it off for obvious reasons. Whatever that is, double it to get your test dose. ( hoping test enanthate or cyp or somethjng ...skill your leaks all together for now. Just suggestions... take care and glad to be back on here again
I'm compensating with deca for the low test dosage, i.e., deca will be the primary steroid responsible for muscle building. As you all know, there are people who do downright idiotic cycles with orals only and no test base, or even tren/deca with no test base, and they still gain muscle and keep some of them after PCT. I'm not that stupid, even though some of the posters above want to believe so, so whereas I won't inject excessive test into my body to get me over the natty range of 1,200+ ng/dl, I won't be at 0 ng/dl either, but somewhere around my natural levels. So if people who go on stupid cycles without any test base gain muscle and keep some afterwards, why is my plan to use a minimal amount of test just to keep me in the normal range looked down upon so much, as if I won't be able to build and keep any muscle at all?
I mean turinabol, I wouldn't use d-bol because it's more androgenic and not friendly to the hairline, not to mention I don't really want much water bloat. But yea, might not waste money on it for the first time...
You are probably an exception. Most people would be nowhere near that range with 100 mg per week, that's why TRT doses start at 125 mg and might go up to 250 mg, and even then they still aren't in the upper natural levels of 1000 ng/dl but in the averages of 600 ng/dl (or even lower) - that's what a TRT is supposed to do, put your testosterone in the average healthy range. Almost nobody pins that small of a dose precisely because almost nobody gets their testosterone that high because of it, you know very well this is true. And besides, if I'm an exception too, I can always take a blood test to determine how much my testosterone has elevated (if at all) and pin less next time.
I'm here for feedback, whether positive, negative or of a curious nature, and also to learn and discuss. I'm sure I'm not the only person who has considered taking steroids but was reluctant due to the potential androgenic side effects such as hair loss. Someone just like me might come across this forum thread by googling the same thing next week, month, year, etc., and hopefully get something out of it, not just bro science. In this regard, I'll also leave a useful link here: http://www.hairlossfromsteroids.com/Specific-Steroids-and-Hair-Loss.html
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Seems like my reply got deleted because I added a link. I'll write it again without the link:
You are an exception then. That's why TRT doses start at 125 mg and go up to 250 mg, and even then the men aren't usually in the upper levels with 1000 ng/dl, but in the averages of 600 (or even lower) - that's what TRT is supposed to do, put your testosterone in the healthy average range. Almost nobody pins such a small dose of test precisely because almost nobody gets their testosterone that high because of it, and you know very well this is true, and others agree as well. I might as well be an exception, but I can always do a blood test to see how much my testosterone has elevated (if at all) and pin less next time.
I'm here for feedback, whether positive, negative or of a curious nature, and also to discuss and learn. I'm sure I'm not the only person on earth who has considered taking steroids but was reluctant due to the androgenic side effects such as hair loss. Someone like me might google and find this forum thread in a week, month, year, etc., and hopefully get something out of it, not just bro science.
So, the weird cycle aside, your main issue is dht right? Why not run some serious hair loss prevention on cycle and just run the normal test only first cycle? If you're just beginning hair loss, there are so many topical dht inhibitor's and shampoos and ect...
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Those come with their own side effects, finasteride/dutasteride being terrible in this regard and I'd never use them or recommend to anyone, ever. Minoxidil is a no-go for me either, first because of the initial Minoxidil-induced shedding and second because you have to be on the stuff forever. Once I lose enough hair I'll shave it off, no problem, but if someone really wants their hair for that long, I'd recommend it. Then there's also RU-58841, unresearched and unknown side effects, might be the same as finasteride, also expensive.
I only and ever used saw palmetto, pumpkin seed oil and nizoral shampoo for hair loss, and none of that is really potent or useful enough when you have testosterone levels as high as on an average test cycle.
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buen
Banned
again..you are full of shit..so much for your "research"
TRT doses do not start at 125mg...and no clinical protocol calls for 250mmg per week
ALL major professional Endocrinology Societies and Organizations worldwide recommend a starting dose for TESTOSTERONE E or C at... 150- 200mg EVERY 2 WEEKS (75-100mg per week)
https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article-lookup/doi/10.1210/jc.2009-2354
see table 6....Clinical pharmacology of some testosterone formulations
That's the standard protocol...PERIOD
Adjustments are then made UP or DOWN to achieve serum testosterone levels between 350 and 750 ng/dl 1 wk after the injection
This is basic info easily found...but you take your know it all bro science and run your mouth off without even checking any creditable source..so much for ALL your "research"
This is inductive of your sloppy approach to information..you really don't want to learn or understand..you're just looking to support your misconceptions
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I was wrong in saying TRT starts at 125 mg and goes up to 250 mg (I read that somewhere but didn't double-check it), but there are lots of people on TRT who are prescribed 150-200 mg per week, which is 50-100 mg more than this guideline recommends, and they were initially put on 100 mg.
100 mg per week usually does not elevate testosterone levels to 1000+ ng/dl in most men, but keeps it in the average range (or lower), that's why it's on the standard protocol. You are an exception, I might be too, wouldn't know without a blood test, but as you can tell from the thread title, I put anything between 70-125 mg as a possibility, I did not flat out decide to take 100 mg, so if I were to take 70 mg per week, it's highly unlikely my testosterone would get anywhere near 1000 ng/dl. Actually, you've convinced me to take less than 100 mg per week, thanks! See, and you said I don't want to learn anything...
I'll also quote Tyrson from the PM he sent me, as this is interesting information:
I'll have to do more research into RU-58841, but if this is true, it means one can use higher amounts of test (e.g. an average cycle, not the small one I'm proposing) and experience no hair loss (at areas where RU was applied, as it literally blocks DHT from affecting those hair follicles). Interesting.
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He's not the only exception. I make 10x on my bloodwork as well....many people do.
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steroids isn't for u brother
buen
Banned
guideline...75-100mg per week....
150-200mg is double the guideline
very few endo's ever prescribe 200mg per week...your "knowledge" on the subject (as already proved) comes from BB forums...and quack TRT mill dr's
FWI...more men (when under the care of a qualified endocrinologists) are prescribed 50mg/week than 150mg
you can't even do simple math...do you even see your pattern of selective justification
so..just move along...head in sand..do your "researched" cycle...see for yourself...but plz stop posting your BS "knowledge"..you do a disservice to those here actually wanting to obtain real information
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And yet, they still do. 75-100 mg is prescribed because it raises testosterone on average up to 350-750 ng/dl, as per the guideline you linked. Rarely, like in your case, it raises it to 1000 ng/dl. If this was the norm, the standard protocol would be lower. See also:
You mean from people with experience with TRT and steroids, just like you? Lol...
Good to know, so I should change the topic title from "70-125 mg" to "50-125 mg." Thanks.
My math is fine.
Which part of it is bullshit, other than the part where I wrongly assumed standard TRT doses are 125-250 mg per week? Are you claiming I won't build any muscle with average 700 ng/dl testosterone while using deca or what exactly you arguing here?
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What is your goal with this cycle anyway? I see any gains made on 100mg of test and 200mg Deca to be very negligible. Why would you needlessly shut yourself down to run a cycle that will be marginally better, if it all, than just training naturally? Unless you already have low test, taking 100mg of exogenous testosterone to raise your levels to 700-1000 won't really benefit you. And I don't see much benefit from 200mg of Deca either. I just can't for the life of me see the point of messing with your HPTA for little to no potential benefit. Also, what was the point of this thread? You already have your mind made up, know more than any of us, and won't take advice from anybody on here, so why did you even ask the question?
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