thanks for sharing brother... ive been talking about this for quite some time and its so often overlooked that its quite scary and people do not understand just what they could be getting themselves into with finasteride use...
Lasting side effects from Tamoxifen
- Thread starter hooall
- Start date
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To be honest (and check one of my other recent posts on the subject) if I could go back years when I first got PSSD which is similar to PFS but not as bad, the very VERY first thing I would do is act. In this way.
Straight to TRT. No stuffing around on natural therapies and self boosters etc. just go straight to TRT.
Add Creatine. And Add Proviron. And add Aromasin.
Just start shovelling as much Test and DHT conversion straight back in there as possible with the IGf1 spike from Aromasin and hope to hell you can awaken your body's reaction to it all. It took me a good year to start undoing the damage from PSSD. 365 days plus!
Then I'd add HCG to see if you can start spiking your balls back as well.
Your body is dead and you need to accept it. I struggled for YEARS trying to fight with Test in the 300s. Ain't gonna happen and HCG itself is not a long term solution.
I wish I had done this sooner and possibly would be in a better sitch than I am now. I wasted a good 5 years - most of my 20s - golden years - trying to stuff around avoiding TRT. Now I'm 30 and while not perfect OR as good as I was, I'm sooooooo much better than before doing it. Makes me so sad to think about all that wasted time. And the longer you do leave it, the harder it will be to reverse.
The dead dick is THE single biggest warning sign your body tries to give you that something isn't right. It just so happens that it functions on Test and DHT - your primary male sex hormones. And as soon as you notice this, is as soon as you should start feeding it the hormones it is crying out for - because it ain't making them. It is dead in the mud.
Straight to TRT. No stuffing around on natural therapies and self boosters etc. just go straight to TRT.
Add Creatine. And Add Proviron. And add Aromasin.
Just start shovelling as much Test and DHT conversion straight back in there as possible with the IGf1 spike from Aromasin and hope to hell you can awaken your body's reaction to it all. It took me a good year to start undoing the damage from PSSD. 365 days plus!
Then I'd add HCG to see if you can start spiking your balls back as well.
Your body is dead and you need to accept it. I struggled for YEARS trying to fight with Test in the 300s. Ain't gonna happen and HCG itself is not a long term solution.
I wish I had done this sooner and possibly would be in a better sitch than I am now. I wasted a good 5 years - most of my 20s - golden years - trying to stuff around avoiding TRT. Now I'm 30 and while not perfect OR as good as I was, I'm sooooooo much better than before doing it. Makes me so sad to think about all that wasted time. And the longer you do leave it, the harder it will be to reverse.
The dead dick is THE single biggest warning sign your body tries to give you that something isn't right. It just so happens that it functions on Test and DHT - your primary male sex hormones. And as soon as you notice this, is as soon as you should start feeding it the hormones it is crying out for - because it ain't making them. It is dead in the mud.
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Should prob change the name of this thread to "lasting symptoms of Finasteride/PFS".
That's where the HCG comes into it. You need to get yourself right first, and then try to bring the HCG in and virility/fertility back.
Don't worry I went through all the same crap. Thinking I'm young and want kids and should I freeze sperm etc (ridiculously short timeframe AND expensive). In the end I chucked it all in and got on TRT with intermittent HCG use. I wouldn't be surprised if before going on TRT I was sterile anyway. I can't imagine this whole dead dick thing (already resulting in low T) has got to be good for sperm motility as it is.
And again, BEFORE all this I was beyond perfect too man. Active, athletic, erections were hard as steel and libido was so high it was literally inconvenient.
So basically I was on Sertraline as an anti depressant for barely 2 months. And it ruined me, hell on earth, every side effect possible beginning with sexual problems. Got off and doc's said the symptoms would go away. They didn't. They persisted. At literally 25 years old I was getting prescriptions for Viagra from the Doc to try and have sex. Of course it barely worked because you need the drive there. I had Z E R O. Dead in the water.
No-one quite knows what happens, but it is theorised that just like PFS, something happens on a neurotransmitter regulation (pituitary maybe?) level that transfers over to androgenic hormones (and sites, 5AR inhibition) that basically shuts you down androgenically. And once you're shut down, it's very hard to turn back on. All the symptoms mimic each other between PSSD and PFS (numb dead dick, loss of size, libido, poor muscle mass, brain fog, depression, anxiety etc). Which all, also happen to be symptoms of hypogonadism, with just one catch.
Some of the symptoms don't quite add up 'traditionally' properly, and replacing the hormones with TRT as you would in hypogonadism doesn't respond the same way. Having been shut down and turned off by whatever mechanism has caused this, causes some kind of androgen resistance in your body. And back to the symptoms not adding up - for example, most guys using TRT are reporting such things as super high E2 and DHT. Which quite simply shouldn't happen. Not only is DHT an anti estrogen. But the theory being that DHT (from being turned off by 5ar inhibition during PSSD/PFS) quite literally (perhaps irreversibly) fries your Androgen Receptor (AR) sites. Meaning that no matter how much you have, Androgens cannot go to work in those sites (in your brain, in your penile tissues, in your body) because they have been altered in some way, so it just builds up and floats around. You can test DHT/FREE DHT this way like we do Free Test/SHBG style. But the common oddity is all these guys can start smashing DHT back in there that really doesn't do anything. Not a good sign. Hence the hair falling out. Perhaps its coincidental that in some people it works because it shuts down 5AR properly. Perhaps in others it simply demolishes AR sites where it shouldn't (everywhere BUT hair follicles) and leaves mass DHT roaming around with nothing to do.
It's been reported that guys who feature this androgen resistance need to have test levels much over what is considered normal, just to have 'normal' function back. A PFS/PSSD HPTA restart, IS NOT the same as a regular HPTA restart. Many have tried and failed.
I tried literally EVERY thing you could name, natural LH risers etc, except HCG and Clomid. Why? Simple. They're estrogens, which is the worst possible thing you could introduce when your body is already severely failing on androgens IMO, and none of them are long term solutions regardless of whether they work or not. So if my body can't do it's own job of making LH/FSH, why use a synthetic replacement? Why not replace, the thing it is I'm trying to replace and that isn't working - test? FYI Tribulis and Mucuna were probably the better herbs with the teeniest improvement but they DO NOT fix the problem.
I hopped on TRT with a blast of 280mg a week + proviron to try and shock my system and it barely put me at 999ng. That's what kind of resistance I had.
Mental effects were almost instantaneous. Everyone commented I was in a better place and how chipper and confident I seemed all of a sudden. Anxiety DECIMATED.
Physical effects were much, much slower. Sooooo steadily, over a year, as to be non-acknowledgable until I looked back and thought about it.
Now I've been on for about 3 years. And for comparison to how my body has re-adjusted, 120mg now puts me at 1400ng. Though I feel a little better at 1,600 - 2,400. Anything higher and I feel cruddy. Go figure. It's like my whole 'normal' level has shifted.
The most androgenic things I've ever run since (like Proviron, Mast, Tren etc) all give you that warm fuzzy manly feeling you remember from back before this happened, but I can imagine how much better they would work, having not screwed myself up beforehand. I imagine my pre PSSD libido + a high DHT compound would be pure insanity. Though these days a high DHT compound doesn't even quite get me to match to my pre PSSD, though it's close.
Occasionally I still use Viagra etc to give myself a little boost if I feel I need it. Plenty of guys on regular TRT regardless (because of the hematocrit rise) use daily low dose Cialis and baby aspirin anyway. I've been considering this but don't quite need it yet and want to hold out as long as I can. I can definitely see it working well though.
These days I'm pretty set, except I still want to try and get my libido a little more consistent. Consistency is the biggest pain for me, but I'm not sure if that's just a sign of getting older, because I have no idea how I would be if I got older without screwing myself up, so I don't know what's normal. But I still have never been the same as I was before the PSSD, no matter how much gear I'm on. TRT however has been a huge plus for me. If I did it sooner, I daresay it would have been even better. You've got to give yourself a fighting chance. Some guys, unfortunately, are absolutely fucked (by these drugs) and have it way way worse than any of us, with little chance of ever regaining themselves purely because they've left it too long.
I stand by my suggestion. AS SOON as you realise you have shut down this androgenic path. You need to try and reverse it PRONTO.
Hell I reckon (and I'm aware this is a somewhat reckless suggestion, though those who haven't been here would struggle to understand) that you'd probably even be better off running a little blast cycle, and THEN trying to give HPTA restart a go with a PCT and then getting off.
People expect TRT to be a perfect heavensent godsend cure. But to be honest it isn't. It has its good days and bad days. However. The good outweigh the bad. Whereas with PSSD/PFS, the bad certainly outweigh the good, so it's worth it.
That's where the HCG comes into it. You need to get yourself right first, and then try to bring the HCG in and virility/fertility back.
Don't worry I went through all the same crap. Thinking I'm young and want kids and should I freeze sperm etc (ridiculously short timeframe AND expensive). In the end I chucked it all in and got on TRT with intermittent HCG use. I wouldn't be surprised if before going on TRT I was sterile anyway. I can't imagine this whole dead dick thing (already resulting in low T) has got to be good for sperm motility as it is.
And again, BEFORE all this I was beyond perfect too man. Active, athletic, erections were hard as steel and libido was so high it was literally inconvenient.
So basically I was on Sertraline as an anti depressant for barely 2 months. And it ruined me, hell on earth, every side effect possible beginning with sexual problems. Got off and doc's said the symptoms would go away. They didn't. They persisted. At literally 25 years old I was getting prescriptions for Viagra from the Doc to try and have sex. Of course it barely worked because you need the drive there. I had Z E R O. Dead in the water.
No-one quite knows what happens, but it is theorised that just like PFS, something happens on a neurotransmitter regulation (pituitary maybe?) level that transfers over to androgenic hormones (and sites, 5AR inhibition) that basically shuts you down androgenically. And once you're shut down, it's very hard to turn back on. All the symptoms mimic each other between PSSD and PFS (numb dead dick, loss of size, libido, poor muscle mass, brain fog, depression, anxiety etc). Which all, also happen to be symptoms of hypogonadism, with just one catch.
Some of the symptoms don't quite add up 'traditionally' properly, and replacing the hormones with TRT as you would in hypogonadism doesn't respond the same way. Having been shut down and turned off by whatever mechanism has caused this, causes some kind of androgen resistance in your body. And back to the symptoms not adding up - for example, most guys using TRT are reporting such things as super high E2 and DHT. Which quite simply shouldn't happen. Not only is DHT an anti estrogen. But the theory being that DHT (from being turned off by 5ar inhibition during PSSD/PFS) quite literally (perhaps irreversibly) fries your Androgen Receptor (AR) sites. Meaning that no matter how much you have, Androgens cannot go to work in those sites (in your brain, in your penile tissues, in your body) because they have been altered in some way, so it just builds up and floats around. You can test DHT/FREE DHT this way like we do Free Test/SHBG style. But the common oddity is all these guys can start smashing DHT back in there that really doesn't do anything. Not a good sign. Hence the hair falling out. Perhaps its coincidental that in some people it works because it shuts down 5AR properly. Perhaps in others it simply demolishes AR sites where it shouldn't (everywhere BUT hair follicles) and leaves mass DHT roaming around with nothing to do.
It's been reported that guys who feature this androgen resistance need to have test levels much over what is considered normal, just to have 'normal' function back. A PFS/PSSD HPTA restart, IS NOT the same as a regular HPTA restart. Many have tried and failed.
I tried literally EVERY thing you could name, natural LH risers etc, except HCG and Clomid. Why? Simple. They're estrogens, which is the worst possible thing you could introduce when your body is already severely failing on androgens IMO, and none of them are long term solutions regardless of whether they work or not. So if my body can't do it's own job of making LH/FSH, why use a synthetic replacement? Why not replace, the thing it is I'm trying to replace and that isn't working - test? FYI Tribulis and Mucuna were probably the better herbs with the teeniest improvement but they DO NOT fix the problem.
I hopped on TRT with a blast of 280mg a week + proviron to try and shock my system and it barely put me at 999ng. That's what kind of resistance I had.
Mental effects were almost instantaneous. Everyone commented I was in a better place and how chipper and confident I seemed all of a sudden. Anxiety DECIMATED.
Physical effects were much, much slower. Sooooo steadily, over a year, as to be non-acknowledgable until I looked back and thought about it.
Now I've been on for about 3 years. And for comparison to how my body has re-adjusted, 120mg now puts me at 1400ng. Though I feel a little better at 1,600 - 2,400. Anything higher and I feel cruddy. Go figure. It's like my whole 'normal' level has shifted.
The most androgenic things I've ever run since (like Proviron, Mast, Tren etc) all give you that warm fuzzy manly feeling you remember from back before this happened, but I can imagine how much better they would work, having not screwed myself up beforehand. I imagine my pre PSSD libido + a high DHT compound would be pure insanity. Though these days a high DHT compound doesn't even quite get me to match to my pre PSSD, though it's close.
Occasionally I still use Viagra etc to give myself a little boost if I feel I need it. Plenty of guys on regular TRT regardless (because of the hematocrit rise) use daily low dose Cialis and baby aspirin anyway. I've been considering this but don't quite need it yet and want to hold out as long as I can. I can definitely see it working well though.
These days I'm pretty set, except I still want to try and get my libido a little more consistent. Consistency is the biggest pain for me, but I'm not sure if that's just a sign of getting older, because I have no idea how I would be if I got older without screwing myself up, so I don't know what's normal. But I still have never been the same as I was before the PSSD, no matter how much gear I'm on. TRT however has been a huge plus for me. If I did it sooner, I daresay it would have been even better. You've got to give yourself a fighting chance. Some guys, unfortunately, are absolutely fucked (by these drugs) and have it way way worse than any of us, with little chance of ever regaining themselves purely because they've left it too long.
I stand by my suggestion. AS SOON as you realise you have shut down this androgenic path. You need to try and reverse it PRONTO.
Hell I reckon (and I'm aware this is a somewhat reckless suggestion, though those who haven't been here would struggle to understand) that you'd probably even be better off running a little blast cycle, and THEN trying to give HPTA restart a go with a PCT and then getting off.
People expect TRT to be a perfect heavensent godsend cure. But to be honest it isn't. It has its good days and bad days. However. The good outweigh the bad. Whereas with PSSD/PFS, the bad certainly outweigh the good, so it's worth it.
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