Hypogonadism - Life Long Hormone Replacement Therapy

[cmb5017]

Use Proviron for 16 weeks then stop for 4....only to keep your body from getting used to..it's very non toxic and highly unlikely to cause sides...I would not come off aromasin unless your sure about your ability to handle estrogen..I myself can run a very high amount of test without an ai..but I know my body

 

[ziggzigg]

Okay thanks appreciate the advice


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[rockmfhudd]

Use Proviron for 16 weeks then stop for 4....only to keep your body from getting used to..it's very non toxic and highly unlikely to cause sides...I would not come off aromasin unless your sure about your ability to handle estrogen..I myself can run a very high amount of test without an ai..but I know my body

so on trt u continue to run arom? I am not on trt yet but that's good to know

 

[cmb5017]

so on trt u continue to run arom? I am not on trt yet but that's good to know

Only if estrogen is a problem for you....if you run 250 mg on trt and you don't have estrogen sides..then don't run it.. I don't.....but some people are so estrogen sensitive they need it at that dose..

 

[rockmfhudd]

Only if estrogen is a problem for you....if you run 250 mg on trt and you don't have estrogen sides..then don't run it.. I don't.....but some people are so estrogen sensitive they need it at that dose..

right ok cool, good info

 

[ziggzigg]

So I just got my full panel back. All seems good except since going on Aromasin 12.5mg EOD my estrogen has dropped off too much. Prior to this I was on Clomid 50mg twice a week.

Any help with adjusting my dose / ai would be helpful. Thanks. Zigg

I'm on Test 200mg 3x a week
HGH 4iu / day
Aromasin: 12.5 EOD
Proviron: 25mg 3x a day (75mg / day)

See Attached!

 

[chelades]

Yeah that's too much IMO. That's a blast/cycle dose -12.5EOD. Most guys doing TRT have had best success doing two doses of that a week, 24 hours after injection with x2 weekly pins.
EG in your case:

Monday 300mg.
Tuesday 12.5aro.
Thursday 300mg.
Friday 12.5aro.

So basically working out a weekly dose (25mg) split across the week to keep blood levels stable. Your E2 is crashed hard, no wonder you've got ED problems and can't finish.
Not to mention Proviron also has somewhat of an affinity to bind to Aromatose lowering what little you have further.

This is quite a tricky situation to hash out. Considering you're taking so much Test, that's barely putting you at high normal, it makes things difficult to work out an AI dose with that schedule while keeping bloods steady. Your body certainly processes it different than most so no-one really knows what's happening in the 24-48 hours after you pin. Your blood levels could be rollercoasting/rising and dropping off hardcore or just not responding well at all. Surely that's pretty hefty androgen resistance.

So at the moment we have 600mg Test and 50mg Aromasin per week. I'd start by halving that. 25mg. At least.

Do 12.5mg the day after your earliest weekly pin. Do your middle weekly pin as usual. Then do 12.5mg the day after your latest weekly pin.

Maybe even just try 12.5mg once a week, the day after an injection to let it jump back up a little. For a week or two. This is going to require some fine tuning and more testing.

 

[ziggzigg]

One of my concerns was a roller coaster affect so my schedule was:

Monday: 25mg Proviron AM, 4iu HGH, 200mg test, 25mg Proviron PM
Tuesday: 25mg Proviron AM, 4iu HGH, 12.5mg Aromasin, 25mg Proviron PM
Wednesday: 25mg Proviron AM, 4iu HGH, 200mg test, 25mg Proviron PM
Thursday: 25mg Proviron AM, 4iu HGH, 12.5mg Aromasin, 25mg Proviron PM
Friday: 25mg Proviron AM, 4iu HGH, 12.5mg Aromasin, 25mg Proviron PM
Saturday: 25mg Proviron AM, 4iu HGH, 200mg test, 25mg Proviron PM
Sunday: 25mg Proviron AM, 4iu HGH, 12.5mg Aromasin, 25mg Proviron PM


For the next week I've DC'd the Aromasin and will pick back up on Monday with the following schedule:

Monday: 25mg Proviron AM, 4iu HGH, 200mg test, 25mg Proviron PM
Tuesday: 25mg Proviron AM, 4iu HGH, 6.25mg Aromasin, 25mg Proviron PM
Wednesday: 25mg Proviron AM, 4iu HGH, 200mg test, 25mg Proviron PM
Thursday: 25mg Proviron AM, 4iu HGH, 6.25mg Aromasin, 25mg Proviron PM
Friday: 25mg Proviron AM, 4iu HGH, 6.25mg Aromasin, 25mg Proviron PM
Saturday: 25mg Proviron AM, 4iu HGH, 200mg test, 25mg Proviron PM
Sunday: 25mg Proviron AM, 4iu HGH, 6.25mg Aromasin, 25mg Proviron PM

What about DC'n Aromasin for the next month and using HCG and allowing the Proviron to lower the estrogen to the extent that it can? Prior to Aromasin I utilized Clomid and every 3 months or so I would hop off of it for 30 days and go on HCG. From what I recall I used to get my libido back and my balls would fill out. Could that be an option to get my levels back in check again?

Also, I plan on running the HGH 7 days a week for the first month and then dropping the weekends off to just 2iu for the next month and then DC'n HGH on the weekends for the remainder of the cycle.

 

[chelades]

Aromasin is suicidal remember, so once it has destroyed Aromatase, regardless of half life, it can sustain that lowered estrogen level for up to 72 hours while your body makes new Aromatase to replace it. Having said that I think such regular dosing with that low mean serum testosterone is still not wise - especially the back to back days in the middle. Your E2 is absolutely in the kicker, I think you can relax with no worry of gyno or anything, most probably even if you ran NO AI at all - but I wouldn't suggest that.

So, I like the schedule, but I'd probably drop out Friday Aromasin and then assess. Maybe even Thursday too. You're looking to raise your E2 by at least 300% by those blood numbers - I don't think cutting the Aromasin dose by half is going to do that.

What HCG does in that case is raise serum E2 (and intra-testicular E2) which is why you'd definitely feel better from having E2 scraping the bucket. It's an option, absolutely. But personally I'd prefer to see serum E2 in check before you add that in. You don't want to start a rebound rollercoaster effect, as you'll still have no idea what kind of AI dose you require. And this is for the long haul, so you want to get that down tight. Not to mention HCG isn't 'really' a long-term solution.

The only time you want to bring HCG into TRT (IMO) is when serum testosterone is where it should be, and serum E2 is where it should be, but you still have no libido or virility. Then you throw the HCG in, bring testicular E2 back up, fills the balls and you're good to go.

And don't forget Proviron isn't an AI, it just has *some* affinity to act that way. Maybe you could get away with no AI, Proviron and HCG, but that's not for us to guess. Keep at it with the AI and find your sweet spot first. It may just turn out that nothing is your sweet spot and you don't need an AI at all, but steady trial and results is the only way to know, no point jumping the gun and guessing.

 

[ziggzigg]

Okay so I'll follow the second schedule I laid out which took my Aromasin from 50mg a week to 25mg a week. I'll run that for a week or so and see how I adjust. Then will go from there. I can't get blood work every month is the only prob. I think my insurance pays for it 4 times a year.

Zigg