First Tren Cycle (I'd love some advice/first hand experiences)

[Lucky Sob]

I'm a 25 year old physique competitor, and I'm trying to get that last little bit of hard mass to obtain my pro card within the next year or so. I've competed twice in the past and both times I was my own coach, and the coach to my friend who wanted to compete with me as well. To give a perspective, I took first in teen (my first ever show) and then years later took the overall title for mens physique when I was a bit older. I competed both times naturally competed in a natural organization. Now, I'm two cycles in and am planning out my third!

A Few Stats: 25 yo, 5'11, currently sitting at 210 lbs, probably 8-10%, 4 months since my last cycle and I had a full PCT not TRT (I ended it at 225-230 ~12%). Last cycle I could hack squat 5 plates each side for sets of 12-15, I back squatted once and I put up 365 for 10 my first time back squatting in 6 months, and the single time I flat benched I was doing the 225lb bench challenge for max reps and got 22.

Cycle History:
First cycle was 500 mg/week of test E ~12 weeks
Second cycle was 400 mg test cyp/300 mg deca~16 weeks

Goals for this cycle: I'll be down to a solid 7-8% before I run this cycle, and I want to use it as a lean mass cycle, borderline recomp going into the summer. I want to remain tight and full as when I took decca I got the god damn decca cheeks and wasn't a fan of the amount of water retention. This would be my last cycle before I did a cutting cycle into a show to attempt to win a pro card. I'd be applying the last little bit of mass to the right areas and maintaining good conditioning.

Proposed Cycle:
Tren Ace: @300-350 mg/week
Test Cyp: @300-400 mg/week
Prami: .25mg ED-.5mg ED
Aromasin: 12.5mg EOD

Post Cycle:
I think it's time that I start doing TRT as I'm trying to do this professionally and losing the amount of fullness and size I saw after I finished Deca isn't something I can have continue to happen. I'd be running HCG to keep my testies from going all the way away, and then I would run between 200-250mg/week of Test Cyp as my TRT

Any advice from people who have used tren (especially competitors) would be appreciated! I'm excited and nervous to see what happens and am prepared to get this ball rolling!

 

[servicemangler]

Good luck incredible strength gains, lots of sides. Strength just kept coming through hole cycle along with blood pressure. Ended up having a heart attack at end of cycle 1 week ago and will need more work. Don't let that discourage you because your pretty young yet. I would keep your dosage no higher than 300 a week with the tren to play it safe. tren didn't cause the heart issue but it definitely helped push it along.

 

[Rydrdie]

Test at 400. Tren at 300. I would like to see caber instead of prami. I would also run GW with the cycle. There was a big difference for me from running tren with GW and without. Also make sure you are eating enough carbs.

 

[DylanGemelli]

i like the dosing on it... looks really spot on... however i HATE the fact you say you think its time to start trt.. dude you are fucking 25 years old... are you kidding me right now? i hope you know what that all entails and i also hope you understand that long term hcg use like that is detrimental.. i have seen it so many fucking times over the years with people coming to me for help and i dont even have an answer on how to fix it... your life and your problems to deal with but its very very very ignorant to even consider it... i just hope you sit down and realize what that all means moving forward... i'll leave this one be... the last thing im going to do is debate it.. ive been doing this way way too long... you are 25.. so thats up to you man... good luck to you..

 

[joonp]

I just gotta say that i think ur making a big mistake. You had to know u were going to lose size after coming off a test/deca cycle. Deca is a known water retaining compound. Thats why its good for the joints. You have to understand that the compounds you choose and their effects so you know that if you gain 15-20 lbs most likely when u come off ur gonna lose a good portion of it. It also gets less and less after each succeeding cycle. Do you really want to make a potential life changing decision at 25? You may become infertile. Not many women want to have a relationship with no possibility if children. Most high level pros didnt use a ton if aas to get their pro card. They kinda hand them out left and right now. My advice would be to cycle and dedicate yourself to strict nutrition and hard work in the gym. It takes 10-15 yrs to become a high level pro unless your yates, heath, or Coleman. Ur mindset and desires at 25 will not be remotely close to ur goals at 35. Leave urself the option to make decisions in the future. In the end its ur life do as u wish just understand all the ramifications

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[DylanGemelli]

I just gotta say that i think ur making a big mistake. You had to know u were going to lose size after coming off a test/deca cycle. Deca is a known water retaining compound. Thats why its good for the joints. You have to understand that the compounds you choose and their effects so you know that if you gain 15-20 lbs most likely when u come off ur gonna lose a good portion of it. It also gets less and less after each succeeding cycle. Do you really want to make a potential life changing decision at 25? You may become infertile. Not many women want to have a relationship with no possibility if children. Most high level pros didnt use a ton if aas to get their pro card. They kinda hand them out left and right now. My advice would be to cycle and dedicate yourself to strict nutrition and hard work in the gym. It takes 10-15 yrs to become a high level pro unless your yates, heath, or Coleman. Ur mindset and desires at 25 will not be remotely close to ur goals at 35. Leave urself the option to make decisions in the future. In the end its ur life do as u wish just understand all the ramifications

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really well said joon, i truly hope he takes your post to heart because its beyond spot on

 

[dpetze22]

Agree with Dylan and Joon. You are 25. You have your whole life ahead of you. Alot can change as far as your goals from 25 to say even 28.

 

[Lucky Sob]

Firstly, to everyone who took the time to respond and offer both personal experience and advice, I appreciate it greatly. As to the claim that most pros gained their pro card naturally, I'd have to say I strongly disagree. I go to a gym that has over 30 IFBB pros and personally know people who placed in the top 10 at the recent arnold classic for both physique and classic physique. TRT is a way of life for every single pro I've spoken to that has opened up to me. That being said, many of these pros also take excessively large cycles, which I am most certainly not prepared nor wanting to do. I've been training for over a decade now, originally for sports and then bodybuilding for the past 9 years. Up until this year I was natural and decided after winning a natural overall show for physique that I wanted to take that next step to attempt to reach my pro card. I understand from a general principle that TRT is bad long term in terms of fertility. I've known that for years, as I spent year researching and yes watching @dylangemelli videos. I'm aware of the consequences and appreciate the input. My mind is not set, but I was trying to come to this board for the expert advice that I'm getting above. That being said, I just want everyone who helped me here to know that I will be taking into account everything said and be using it to make my decision. I appreciate the help, support, and general advice.

 

[Lucky Sob]

Oh, and as to losing size/strength after Deca. YES I knew ahead of time that I'd lose a lot of water, and also some muscle. However, since I have now been off for four months after PCT, the loss in strength especially and size has been way more dramatic than I had anticipated. I didn't run HCG this past cycle, just a full PCT with Nolva, Aromasin, and Clomid. However I found that to not be nearly enough (low libido for a couple months, always tired, and overall just very LOW in general) and will most definitely be running HCG from now on post cycle before my PCT

 

[DylanGemelli]

well its your call... you have people that actually do care giving you info but noone here is your dad, you have to make your own decisions... but for me personally. what exactly is worth it to become a pro? are you becoming a millionaire or are you going to support your family on it? is it worth it then for the repercussions downs the road? thats for you to decide but allure of having a title is not worth what you get from it

 

[Lucky Sob]

I do honestly appreciate the input and the advice! I watch your videos regularly to learn and can attribute a great deal of what I know today to you. As far as Tren and Test Cyp, I would have Test cyp @300mg/ml and Tren Ace @100mg/ml for the sake of convenience, how does this setup look?

Mon: Test Cyp 150mg, Tren Ace 75mg
Tues:
Wed: Tren Ace 75mg
Thurs:
Frid: Test Cyp 150mg, Tren Ace 75mg
Sat:
Sun: Tren Ace 75mg

And Cycle through the next week the same way but starting on tuesday? That way I get to minimize the amount of injections by pinning the test cyp with the first and third pin of the week for tren? I'm interested to hear your opinion on whether that's alright as opposed to doing test mon/thur and then still alternating tren around that.

Basically it'd average out to 300mg of Test and 262.5mg of tren (I really appreciate your less is more mentality and would like to keep dosages as low as I can and allow the nutrition to do the rest) Also, as far as Prami goes... would you recommend I simply start at .25mg and up the dose according to what I feel I need (maximum of .5mg)?

THANK YOU!

 

[DylanGemelli]

that looks fine to me... you just run tren every other day throughout no matter what day it falls on... yes, on the prami, that should be PLENTY on that dose of tren... i cant see you needing more than that.. of course its possible but highly unlikely... test monday and friday is completely fine...

 

[RoboGainz]

well its your call... you have people that actually do care giving you info but noone here is your dad, you have to make your own decisions... but for me personally. what exactly is worth it to become a pro? are you becoming a millionaire or are you going to support your family on it? is it worth it then for the repercussions downs the road? thats for you to decide but allure of having a title is not worth what you get from it

totally agree with this. A Pro Card means nothing financially. I know two guys at my gym that sometime i train with and they both have pro cards. They make absolutely no money from it. Its for the ego but even then they have such a small following on any social media and work 9-5 jobs.

 

[DylanGemelli]

totally agree with this. A Pro Card means nothing financially. I know two guys at my gym that sometime i train with and they both have pro cards. They make absolutely no money from it. Its for the ego but even then they have such a small following on any social media and work 9-5 jobs.

exactly... its like a few percent that make anything out of it... i learned this the hard way as a model in my 20's... so glamorous to have the title, i even signed a contract in fucking Italy bro.. i worked in the mecca and found out the hard way you dont make shit but have a title...

 

[RickRock]

totally agree with this. A Pro Card means nothing financially. I know two guys at my gym that sometime i train with and they both have pro cards. They make absolutely no money from it. Its for the ego but even then they have such a small following on any social media and work 9-5 jobs.

I have a married couple locally that are both pros that I know personally. The female actually won the women's physique at the Arnold classic two years ago and has been to the Olympia 3 TIMES. They are both sponsored by 3 different companies and still they both need full time jobs with a college education to make ends meet. A pro card means dick exceot bragging rights. If you're in it for money you'll be a broke mother fucker unless you become the next Phil heath or Jay Cutler....only a couple exceptions that actually made themselves profitable

 

[cbbram00]

I have a married couple locally that are both pros that I know personally. The female actually won the women's physique at the Arnold classic two years ago and has been to the Olympia 3 TIMES. They are both sponsored by 3 different companies and still they both need full time jobs with a college education to make ends meet. A pro card means dick exceot bragging rights. If you're in it for money you'll be a broke mother fucker unless you become the next Phil heath or Jay Cutler....only a couple exceptions that actually made themselves profitable

Right you have to sell yourself and use your pro card as a marketing tool. It's just a stepping stone.

 

[DylanGemelli]

its not worth it whatsoever if you have to sacrifice long term health... i dont think it would be regardless but definitely not for what you get

 

[RoboGainz]

I have a married couple locally that are both pros that I know personally. The female actually won the women's physique at the Arnold classic two years ago and has been to the Olympia 3 TIMES. They are both sponsored by 3 different companies and still they both need full time jobs with a college education to make ends meet. A pro card means dick exceot bragging rights. If you're in it for money you'll be a broke mother fucker unless you become the next Phil heath or Jay Cutler....only a couple exceptions that actually made themselves profitable

Exactly...this topic can keep going on and on but even the guys that made anything of it did it at the expense of their health...take a look at ronnie coleman. much respect for the man but he has undergone so many surgeries. Many of them have joint issue and i cant even imagine what some of them are doing to their insides. So sure they made money doing it but at a huge expense of their health. I workout at the same gym as Camala Rodriguez who has been to the Olympia and Arnold. She works at the gym full time as a trainer just to be able to afford what she can do and to keep this lifestyle. Most of them live with tight pockets. if its worth the ego boost to them for a judge to tell them they look good then so be it. Its never been for me and never will. I have better things to work for then $5 plastic trophies.

 

[DylanGemelli]

Exactly...this topic can keep going on and on but even the guys that made anything of it did it at the expense of their health...take a look at ronnie coleman. much respect for the man but he has undergone so many surgeries. Many of them have joint issue and i cant even imagine what some of them are doing to their insides. So sure they made money doing it but at a huge expense of their health. I workout at the same gym as Camala Rodriguez who has been to the Olympia and Arnold. She works at the gym full time as a trainer just to be able to afford what she can do and to keep this lifestyle. Most of them live with tight pockets. if its worth the ego boost to them for a judge to tell them they look good then so be it. Its never been for me and never will. I have better things to work for then $5 plastic trophies.

completely agree.. what the fuck good does some shit trophy do for you?

 

[Gixxer]

Test at 400. Tren at 300. I would like to see caber instead of prami. I would also run GW with the cycle. There was a big difference for me from running tren with GW and without. Also make sure you are eating enough carbs.

How many carbs we talking?