Deca with TRT question

[Maxadvance]

Since it seems aveed may become the future of trt by a doc, this s a good article to get started.

http://www.musculardevelopment.com/...oate-big-gains-or-big-pain-.html#.VsCr9T_2bIV

Truth be told I am seeing a TRT doc, and while I'm glad I did, you make a good point. If you know what you're looking for in your own bloodwork it becomes a matter of tweeking your protocol, see how you feel, and rerunning your bloods for analysis. Standard practice for any TRT doc seems eerily similar for all patients, 120-200mg of Test C per week in 2 pins plus .25mg Anostrozole twice a week. 9 out of 10 patients will get this scripped to start.

What I've learned is that managing my estradiol is key. In the beginning my E was flaring and I needed the AI. What they don't tell you is that our body has an amazing ability to manage and adjust hormone levels on their own, that while I needed that AI to start, I don't anymore because my body adapted. Pretty cool. I requested a SHBG test myself after I started(because the docs didn't) and I just had a hunch. It came back at 17, which is pretty efen low, and that's what Im currently trying to dial in. My latest bloods with just 160mg of Test C per week pinned at 80mg x 2 came back at a T level of 950, but my free T was off the chart(literally) at >50. Libido was good, but erection quality was so so.

I've actually seen a few of your posts(good stuff btw) and for the past few weeks have been on 200mg T per week, and 150mg of deca(thx IWGF), and dropped the AI completely and the prelims are pretty awesome. Energy, libido, erection q are all good. Going to run new bloods next week and go from there. This time I'll run my own bloods at discountedlabs.com, they have a $29 T and free T special(T is capped at 2000). Not going thru my doc as to avoid any red flags with him. Again, appreciate your contributions. ps, I'm 53, 6,2" 230lbs @ 17% bf.

 

[drb_iac]

Truth be told I am seeing a TRT doc, and while I'm glad I did, you make a good point. If you know what you're looking for in your own bloodwork it becomes a matter of tweeking your protocol, see how you feel, and rerunning your bloods for analysis. Standard practice for any TRT doc seems eerily similar for all patients, 120-200mg of Test C per week in 2 pins plus .25mg Anostrozole twice a week. 9 out of 10 patients will get this scripped to start.

What I've learned is that managing my estradiol is key. In the beginning my E was flaring and I needed the AI. What they don't tell you is that our body has an amazing ability to manage and adjust hormone levels on their own, that while I needed that AI to start, I don't anymore because my body adapted. Pretty cool. I requested a SHBG test myself after I started(because the docs didn't) and I just had a hunch. It came back at 17, which is pretty efen low, and that's what Im currently trying to dial in. My latest bloods with just 160mg of Test C per week pinned at 80mg x 2 came back at a T level of 950, but my free T was off the chart(literally) at >50. Libido was good, but erection quality was so so.

I've actually seen a few of your posts(good stuff btw) and for the past few weeks have been on 200mg T per week, and 150mg of deca(thx IWGF), and dropped the AI completely and the prelims are pretty awesome. Energy, libido, erection q are all good. Going to run new bloods next week and go from there. This time I'll run my own bloods at discountedlabs.com, they have a $29 T and free T special(T is capped at 2000). Not going thru my doc as to avoid any red flags with him. Again, appreciate your contributions. ps, I'm 53, 6,2" 230lbs @ 17% bf.

Good for you bro...that is how you do it.It takes some time and effort but well worth doing yourself. Let me re-iterate...it was bodybuilders who taught docs about test, and it was bodybuilders who taught docs about pct. For years the medical bible called the Physician' Desk Reference said to absolutely NOT use test cyp for muscle building purposes or PED because it will not work. They were either blatanly lying or blatanly stupid.
And you are correct..they will all follow the same protocol. Doctors do not have a clue about aas and the expert docs,called endocrinologists only know test. Do not say deca to them because their eyes will glaze over in ignorance. And you are also correct about the estrogen. They will crash it with ari, rather than arom, without giving the body time and then wonder why the hell did E crash.

When I was a student in college I majored in chemistry. Most of the other students were pre meds,pre dents etc. Two of the pre meds I used to let cheat off of my papers.
Today I still know them. They always ask why I don;t come to them. I said DUDE...you cheated off of me! You would still be in chemistry class right now!!
Since I am on Medicare I do now have a pcp doc.I go to him once per year and I made it clear what my terms were about a lot of things. He goes along so I am happy. They like to do colonoscopys, endoscopies, ultrasound etc. Each procedure is easy and they bill medicare thousands of dollars. He likes to do bloodwork for ldl,hdl etc, even though it has not changed in the last 15 years. They love easy money making people like me. No meds, no conditions..just money

 

[RickRock]

Truth be told I am seeing a TRT doc, and while I'm glad I did, you make a good point. If you know what you're looking for in your own bloodwork it becomes a matter of tweeking your protocol, see how you feel, and rerunning your bloods for analysis. Standard practice for any TRT doc seems eerily similar for all patients, 120-200mg of Test C per week in 2 pins plus .25mg Anostrozole twice a week. 9 out of 10 patients will get this scripped to start.

What I've learned is that managing my estradiol is key. In the beginning my E was flaring and I needed the AI. What they don't tell you is that our body has an amazing ability to manage and adjust hormone levels on their own, that while I needed that AI to start, I don't anymore because my body adapted. Pretty cool. I requested a SHBG test myself after I started(because the docs didn't) and I just had a hunch. It came back at 17, which is pretty efen low, and that's what Im currently trying to dial in. My latest bloods with just 160mg of Test C per week pinned at 80mg x 2 came back at a T level of 950, but my free T was off the chart(literally) at >50. Libido was good, but erection quality was so so.

I've actually seen a few of your posts(good stuff btw) and for the past few weeks have been on 200mg T per week, and 150mg of deca(thx IWGF), and dropped the AI completely and the prelims are pretty awesome. Energy, libido, erection q are all good. Going to run new bloods next week and go from there. This time I'll run my own bloods at discountedlabs.com, they have a $29 T and free T special(T is capped at 2000). Not going thru my doc as to avoid any red flags with him. Again, appreciate your contributions. ps, I'm 53, 6,2" 230lbs @ 17% bf.

Awesome. Thanks for sharing your experience brother


(PM me for a price list for Biotech Labs and 10% discount)

 

[Cwrose1]

Good for you bro...that is how you do it.It takes some time and effort but well worth doing yourself. Let me re-iterate...it was bodybuilders who taught docs about test, and it was bodybuilders who taught docs about pct. For years the medical bible called the Physician' Desk Reference said to absolutely NOT use test cyp for muscle building purposes or PED because it will not work. They were either blatanly lying or blatanly stupid.
And you are correct..they will all follow the same protocol. Doctors do not have a clue about aas and the expert docs,called endocrinologists only know test. Do not say deca to them because their eyes will glaze over in ignorance. And you are also correct about the estrogen. They will crash it with ari, rather than arom, without giving the body time and then wonder why the hell did E crash.

When I was a student in college I majored in chemistry. Most of the other students were pre meds,pre dents etc. Two of the pre meds I used to let cheat off of my papers.
Today I still know them. They always ask why I don;t come to them. I said DUDE...you cheated off of me! You would still be in chemistry class right now!!
Since I am on Medicare I do now have a pcp doc.I go to him once per year and I made it clear what my terms were about a lot of things. He goes along so I am happy. They like to do colonoscopys, endoscopies, ultrasound etc. Each procedure is easy and they bill medicare thousands of dollars. He likes to do bloodwork for ldl,hdl etc, even though it has not changed in the last 15 years. They love easy money making people like me. No meds, no conditions..just money

For me it comes down to this...I am a trained medical professional, I know my body. I know how the different body systems work. I also know that finding a doc willing to prescribe what's needed can be difficult. I believe in listening to your body, and of course using bloodwork to dial everything in. I don't feel that it's being reckless and I'm going to listen to my body first and foremost.of course I'm going to use common sense as well.

 

[TotalPackage]

This whole thread is awesome! I've been on TRT for little over a year now and will take time to share my experiences from getting started the first 13 weeks of up and down with estrogen and such and approximately 8 to 9 months of getting completely dial in. It is a roller coaster at first. But after a year of self-administering ( alongside the TRT clinic) knowing how to get blood work done myself, and knowing what to look for in the values in the reports I definitely think I could self-administer at this point. I do however love having the backup plan of having my clinic be alongside me during this process.

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[buen]

The thing is you NEED a base line BEFORE heading down this path....have you been monitoring your PSA every 6 months for the last few years?
If not.. how on earth would you have any frame of reference for a future abnormal reading?
Prostrate cancer is no joke
What is your baseline over the last year....Test..Free Test...IGF-1 are just the tip of the iceberg...you need a baseline LH, FSH, Estradiol, SHBG, Prolactin and Thyroid
Might you have a pituitary tumor?
Have you TRIED to raise your test naturally?
High SHBG keeping your free test bound
These are all things to explore FIRST
These aren't things you can "feel because you know your own body"
That is what you do AFTER you start trt and are working at dialing in your protocol (with blood work to back it up)
I've been on Dr TRT for close to 15 years.....NOTHING BEATS NATURALLY PRODUCED TESTOSTERONE

Agreed..most Dr's administering TRT don't know very much BUT..There ARE some great ones...do your homework

 

[drb_iac]

The thing is you NEED a base line BEFORE heading down this path....have you been monitoring your PSA every 6 months for the last few years?
If not.. how on earth would you have any frame of reference for a future abnormal reading?
Prostrate cancer is no joke
What is your baseline over the last year....Test..Free Test...IGF-1 are just the tip of the iceberg...you need a baseline LH, FSH, Estradiol, SHBG, Prolactin and Thyroid
Might you have a pituitary tumor?
Have you TRIED to raise your test naturally?
High SHBG keeping your free test bound
These are all things to explore FIRST
These aren't things you can "feel because you know your own body"
That is what you do AFTER you start trt and are working at dialing in your protocol (with blood work to back it up)
I've been on Dr TRT for close to 15 years.....NOTHING BEATS NATURALLY PRODUCED TESTOSTERONE

Agreed..most Dr's administering TRT don't know very much BUT..There ARE some great ones...do your homework

All good points that probably will not be addressed by the majority of trt docs. Also they do not care what your past psa is ...only what is it now.They may or may not even bother to check the prostate gland digitally. These additonal parameters you point out are secondary and not predominant so they will not be addressed unless there is a problem. And do realize that this becomes very costly.
Then you check pancreatic function and also check for tumors, then check the carotid artery as well as for any possible aneurysms since these could be exacerbated by test and cause them to pop and cause death. And here is the most likely thing...check your eyes, because there is a much greater chance that you will get killed in a car crash.
Yes Natty is the way to go. At my age I still do not do trt. There have been some studies on using just clomid and cialis to raise test levels...but lets be honest...if you read this board then you like test best. In many many cases involving aas all caution is thrown to the wind.

 

[JMHinAZ]

I think Buen does bring up a good point regrading the base line to work from. I guess I got lucky with our family Dr. He seems to have a decent grasp on trt and the related effects. Before starting down this road and long before I knew anything about boards like this, I was completely ignorant about trt and aas. Sure I knew about pro athletes and BBs using "juice" but nothing more. Now I feel much better equipped to guide my own ship so to speak. The question is how do we arrive at that point where we are the captain and the Dr. the XO? (2nd in command).
To the vets, DrB, Dyllan, RickR, etc you guys are seeing this more and more were a newb comes in seeking help on cycle or just Joe average who stumbled in here from a Google search on trt. Your guidance is valuable and fills a vital roll particularly to those of us that are just learning and seeking a more healthy body and mind. THANK YOU. Hell theres already a thread specifically addressing safety and guidance. That's the kind of dialog that keeps me here, frequently I see replys from the vets that the op probably didn't want to hear, KEEP it comming! Keep it honest. Ultimately the responsibility lyles not with this board or any other but with the individual. Think critical, question, read, read some more.
While this thread has taken on a life of its own I feel it's been a healthy discussion.
OP, sorry for the hijack, I'll delet it if you whant.

 

[drb_iac]

I think Buen does bring up a good point regrading the base line to work from. I guess I got lucky with our family Dr. He seems to have a decent grasp on trt and the related effects. Before starting down this road and long before I knew anything about boards like this, I was completely ignorant about trt and aas. Sure I knew about pro athletes and BBs using "juice" but nothing more. Now I feel much better equipped to guide my own ship so to speak. The question is how do we arrive at that point where we are the captain and the Dr. the XO? (2nd in command).
To the vets, DrB, Dyllan, RickR, etc you guys are seeing this more and more were a newb comes in seeking help on cycle or just Joe average who stumbled in here from a Google search on trt. Your guidance is valuable and fills a vital roll particularly to those of us that are just learning and seeking a more healthy body and mind. THANK YOU. Hell theres already a thread specifically addressing safety and guidance. That's the kind of dialog that keeps me here, frequently I see replys from the vets that the op probably didn't want to hear, KEEP it comming! Keep it honest. Ultimately the responsibility lyles not with this board or any other but with the individual. Think critical, question, read, read some more.
While this thread has taken on a life of its own I feel it's been a healthy discussion.
OP, sorry for the hijack, I'll delet it if you whant.

Your post is fine and contains good points. This is what makes a good discussion.This entire thread as a whole can help increase your knowledge of trt, and what all is involved. It certainly is not something that bro at the gym should just jump in to, and nor should you listen to his advice and jump in. It can have serious consequences on the cadiovascular system,on various essential prostaglandins, as well as other male functions. It is a lifetime thing to deal with once you start and the dose you use now may change latter. It can become a big pain in the azz....and I don't mean just the pinning. Being uninformed and then being treated by an uninformed doc could be very bad. So you study. I have read countless volumes of literature as well as kept meticuolus notes on all 55 of my cycles. You take notes on what works for you then read up on why. At least if you go to doc quack you will be informed enough to know that it is time to run to a new doc.

And a word of caution. The reason I do not need trt is because I bit the bullet and got off cycles after 12 weeks. I would sometimes do one 12 week cycle then take the rest of the year off. Then I went to 12 on and 12 off. Big secret here...you have to give your body a long break and let it heal. A lot of trt guys did it to themselves because they did not get the rest periods off.I never wanted to get off either, but it was all part of the discipline.
Now that I am over 65 I have noticed that every 6 months or so my test is going down. At 65 it was 700, then at 66 it was 650,then 67at 600. So I see the day coming that I will start trt, but hey bro...starting at 70 years old is way better than starting at 40. I know everyone can dig that.

Add to the fact that for most of my cycles there was no such thing as pct or oct. The long rests did the trick. Now with all of the pct drugs there is no reason to kick down your test for good. Especially when everything you need is right here!

 

[Thoms44]

At 45yrs old, I started trt through a Dr. My total test was low but my free test was actually high. He put me on 300mg Pfizer test cyp every 2 wks with no ai. I had blood work done every 6 months once levels were tweaked
My total test would be around 700 10 days post injection and my free test would be high and estro good. I went from benching 410 to 450 in about a yr and a half too! The biggest difference for me was my energy levels and a slight libido kick. It also cost me $75 a shot! Now I do 200mg a wk at $3.50 a shot.I have health insurance but trt doc didn't take insurance.

 

[drb_iac]

At 45yrs old, I started trt through a Dr. My total test was low but my free test was actually high. He put me on 300mg Pfizer test cyp every 2 wks with no ai. I had blood work done every 6 months once levels were tweaked
My total test would be around 700 10 days post injection and my free test would be high and estro good. I went from benching 410 to 450 in about a yr and a half too! The biggest difference for me was my energy levels and a slight libido kick. It also cost me $75 a shot! Now I do 200mg a wk at $3.50 a shot.I have health insurance but trt doc didn't take insurance.

Yeah big problem here bro. If a woman looses her estrogen during menopause, they cannot wait to write 25 prescripts for all different types of E. How long did it take them to realize that men also loose their vital hormone? Not as quickly as women in menopause but they loose it just the same. Ummmm...it was the bodybuilders who told the docs ..what about our test!!! For a woman the whole truckload of estrogen is free with insurance. For the men it is bookrate

 

[palladium]

I am LOVING my Test/ Deca/ Primobolin/sarms trt cruise Dylan set up, in fact I probably look the best I have looked so far! I have been on Dr. prescribed TRT for a year, but hit a monster blast for 16 weeks last summer...

200mg test c
125mg Deca
200mg primobalin
50mg proviron
2iu Serostim

Sarms

I am not jacked like I was on my blast bit let me tell ya, everyday I am loving how my body looks!

 

[drb_iac]

I am LOVING my Test/ Deca/ Primobolin/sarms trt cruise Dylan set up, in fact I probably look the best I have looked so far! I have been on Dr. prescribed TRT for a year, but hit a monster blast for 16 weeks last summer...

200mg test c
125mg Deca
200mg primobalin
50mg proviron
2iu Serostim

Sarms

I am not jacked like I was on my blast bit let me tell ya, everyday I am loving how my body looks!

lol...do not tell your trt doc about this. He will ask what is primobolan,proviron and deca. If he asks tell him it is vitamins

 

[Shockmaster]

Ive enjoyed all the info on here, point & counter point. Its a good way to expand the knowledge base. Im excited to try a few things differently for sure.

 

[palladium]

Oh Yeah DRB, what he doesn't know wont hurt him, lol!! fyi he is a juice dr from florida, he writes me whatever I want anyway his prices are just INSANE : (((((($960))))) for 60 anavar 60mg from Wells Pharmacy, ((((($375 )))) 10 ml Deca 200mg

 

[DylanGemelli]

lol...do not tell your trt doc about this. He will ask what is primobolan,proviron and deca. If he asks tell him it is vitamins

vitamin G baby... for mothafuckin GAINNNNZZZZZZ... LOL

its a bit on the high side for a cruise but its more or less a one time thing to try and not do again... i would always just stick to 2 after this one... test and deca is perfect... that's the best two to cruise with flat out, hands down, no questions asked...

 

[DylanGemelli]

vitamin G... i love it. "aint nothin but a G thang BAABBBYY""

LMFAO... now your talking my language... if you only knew the amount of old school west coast rap i blast daily at the gym bro... you and i are about the same age so my guess is we appreciate all the same

 

[worldbreaker86]

ALL EYEZ ON ME.. i was a tupac guy LOL

Tupacs 'I'm a souljah' and 'can't see me' are two of my gym staples.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

 

[DylanGemelli]

Tupacs 'I'm a souljah' and 'can't see me' are two of my gym staples.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

Those definitely get me riled up everytime

 

[DylanGemelli]

ALL EYEZ ON ME.. i was a tupac guy LOL

Youll never see a double disc that loaded from top to bottom