deca / npp / proviron / primobolon only cycles

[sal0me]

I'm sure the topic has been discussed to death, and rather than just getting a bunch of replies denouncing the claim, I would like some actual supported research / studies about running these cycles without test

I've watched all of gimelli's videos and read all of the current theory about running protection while running these anabolics while running test but watching this recent enhanced athlete video discussing deca only cycles with deca that isn't loaded with test, there are a lot of pretty reasonable arguments

I also did notice a reply that was of concern citing multiple studies of ventrical enlargement from deca

The arguments goes like this for those who haven't seen the video:
- That testosterone in conjunction with deca is giving the side affects like prolactin and that running deca (that isn't loaded itself with test) without test is not going to give prolactin issues
- This is what all bodybuilders ran in the 70s, they didn't run test with these other compounds and they didn't have the reported problems that people do now with deca. Deca d*ck wasn't a thing back then. Test does convert massively to estrogen, so if you running a short cycle of deca or npp and ran a proper pct, without test, the cycle may not be the most terrible thing in the world as is proclaimed by all.

I don't want the standard replies of you must run test with every cycle unless you can honestly tell me why supported by science and evidence not just what you've heard from someone else

If all of these compounds suppress you, and you are running a proper pct, then why add test to the mix if it is going to give you a boat load of estrogen conversion, and a boat of side effects if run in conjunction with other compounds?

This is a discussion forum and i want to discuss running some of these compounds alone and whether there is a scientific basis for the claim

Hope this conversation can be productive and not a bashing of the topic

 

[Apsmith4992]

Subbing to this... to learn and know when it's time to get the popcorn lol

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[Guarionex]

jajajajajajajajajajaja!!!!

 

[sirjecht]

I'm sure the topic has been discussed to death, and rather than just getting a bunch of replies denouncing the claim, I would like some actual supported research / studies about running these cycles without test

I don't want the standard replies of you must run test with every cycle unless you can honestly tell me why supported by science and evidence not just what you've heard from someone else

If all of these compounds suppress you, and you are running a proper pct, then why add test to the mix if it is going to give you a boat load of estrogen conversion, and a boat of side effects if run in conjunction with other compounds

This is a discussion forum and i want to discuss running some of these compounds alone and whether there is a scientific basis for the claim

Hope this conversation can be productive and not a bashing of the topic

So based on a video that produces no evidence you want evidence to prove it wrong? Is every bit of information you posted literally taken from the video without any research yourself? This seems like a pointless thread, go run Deca without test, do your own "study" and come back with the readings. I assure you these people are doing exactly what you did, hear someone say it and regurgitate. Do some research man for fuck sake

 

[SdBronco]

I can't even....there are no studies or research regarding of the usage of AAS on healthy bodybuilders...not even one. What you are requesting does not exist. This thread is pointless.

Can you tell us why you are opposed to using testosterone?

 

[cmb5017]

First of all the 70's BB's used test e, Dbol,deca..not sure why you think other wise. Test isn't gona raise prolactin on its own..deca and all other compounds are just derivatives of test, the chemical structures have been scientifically structured differently to cause different effects..deca dick was around for decades before they found what could counter act it...the main problem here is listening to rookies like Tony huge. Who has no credentials in aas

 

[buen]

none of your premises are in based in fact

some are just laughable
1. "This is what all bodybuilders ran in the 70s, they didn't run test with these other compounds"

LOL....and all those 70's guys made it to mid life being the model of health...we should all follow ther shining example

2. " why add test to the mix if it is going to give you a boat load of estrogen conversion, and a boat of side effects if run in conjunction with other compounds"

assumes facts not in evidence....sides come from improper use of the compounds (or improper ratios)...not the compounds themselves...
ie ....running massive amounts of test or deca
ie...using them with an elevated bf
I usually include deca or npp in my cycles....I personally after 15 yrs of aas use...have never had a estrogen or prolactin problem...never have had bloat...water retention or sexual disfunction

3. "Test does convert massively to estrogen, "
massively...laughable ...again an incorrect assumption...where is YOUR scientific evidence in support of this?
Ive run test at 650mg per week with less than 10 points increase in estradiol

you need to hold yourself to the same standard you are asking here

I

 

[RickRock]

Oh for fucks sake....how many times are we going to beat this shit I to the ground. Anytime you shutdown your natural products of testosterone, it needs to be replaced or you expereince the side effects of low testosterone.

Nobody has a damn thing to prove to you, and if you don't buy into it then go run a cycle without test. Do what you want. I know I wouldn't do that in a million years. I like feeling great, not being depressed, and having a working dick

 

[Wesley Sniper]

Love me some science!

 

[DylanGemelli]

i cant even respond to this... all im going to say is this... go run 500 mg of deca, 30 mg of dbol, not test with it etc.. dont run a pct like noone did in the past either... then you come back 4 weeks after your cycle and then 8 but the MINUTE you ask for help, dont expect a reply from anyone

 

[sal0me]

ok so its total bull shit about the less sides if not running test in conjunction.

I was just wanting some discussion on that topic. I will retain my opinion of running low test 200mgs or something and npp 3-400mgs with caber and an ai and get my blood work pre, mid, post

I was just wanting to discuss this topic, not against taking pct or anything. I would get anything tested beforehand and 100% would have blood work before mid and after. Perhaps more often, would be good to see how it tracks and responds to you, the more data the better.

The idea sounded interesting, less sides with npp/deca if not running test. I didn't say I was going to do it

It seems, other than the occasional exorbitant amounts Trevor suggests, usually suggesting for pros, but the ideas around running low test with another compound seem to be somewhat in line with what you suggest Dylan, at least in regards to low test and one compound. Both of you seem pro protection, Trevor seemingly more reactionary. I'm sure it's been asked before, but are there some large issues you have with Trevor's suggestions other than the large doses he sometimes recommends. Not to say that's a small thing. Any over arching principles that you would want to discuss? You are both large advocates of proviron and primobolan. These are compounds I'm interested in, as well as NPP. But some discussion would be awesome, I'm sure a lot of people ask you all the time about this. Perhaps you don't want to address something publicly which I would understand

I hear everyone, believe me, I hear you all. The more I think about it, the more I think I would only consider primo with test, something like that.

 

[renglez]

Is it just me or single compound cycles the 'thing to do' lately?
I appreciate your attempt at an open discussion but why not err on the side of caution?


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[Wesley Sniper]

You might have gotten your discussion had your original post not come across as demanding and condescending..."I don't want this" "I want this" "show me research studies" etc... Next time try it as if you were speaking to unpaid volunteers and not the hired help


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[DylanGemelli]

ok so its total bull shit about the less sides if not running test in conjunction.

I was just wanting some discussion on that topic. I will retain my opinion of running low test 200mgs or something and npp 3-400mgs with caber and an ai and get my blood work pre, mid, post

I was just wanting to discuss this topic, not against taking pct or anything. I would get anything tested beforehand and 100% would have blood work before mid and after. Perhaps more often, would be good to see how it tracks and responds to you, the more data the better.

The idea sounded interesting, less sides with npp/deca if not running test. I didn't say I was going to do it

It seems, other than the occasional exorbitant amounts Trevor suggests, usually suggesting for pros, but the ideas around running low test with another compound seem to be somewhat in line with what you suggest Dylan, at least in regards to low test and one compound. Both of you seem pro protection, Trevor seemingly more reactionary. I'm sure it's been asked before, but are there some large issues you have with Trevor's suggestions other than the large doses he sometimes recommends. Not to say that's a small thing. Any over arching principles that you would want to discuss? You are both large advocates of proviron and primobolan. These are compounds I'm interested in, as well as NPP. But some discussion would be awesome, I'm sure a lot of people ask you all the time about this. Perhaps you don't want to address something publicly which I would understand

I hear everyone, believe me, I hear you all. The more I think about it, the more I think I would only consider primo with test, something like that.

bro, what exactly do you feel i need to address or that i would want to address? shutting yourself completely down without test in the process is completely ignorant, especially with a compound like deca, which is already notorious for destroying libido and causing extreme suppression... yes, you become suppressed with test but while you are using it, your levels are obviously at extremely excessive amounts but if not, then you are running something like deca with a completely bottomed out test level in the process... so when you transition into pct, you have NOTHING whatsoever whereas if you were using test, your levels are extremely high so you have the ability to jump start them without being in such a disaster zone... now, think about being on cycle with NO test levels whatsoever... how on earth do you expect to do anything? you certainly will not be able to gain any amount of muscle, you will gain unwanted fat, be extremely fatigued, have no libido and just end up worse off than when you started... not sure what else needs to be said

 

[dieingbreed]

Anyone hear of the camel crew/ a guy nick named camel? I believe he is getting this thought from camel's study/research.

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[RickRock]

This is the unfortunate result of people getting bullshit ideas and advice from the EA channel

 

[JackSteel]

Who do you think is doing legitimate studies on deca/npp/primo/prob cycles sans testosterone??

 

[dieingbreed]

Who do you think is doing legitimate studies on deca/npp/primo/prob cycles sans testosterone??

Some guy nick named camel toe, or camel. He has a crew called the camel crew. Or the camel toe crew lol some bullshit.

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[dieingbreed]

This is the unfortunate result of people getting bullshit ideas and advice from the EA channel

It is unfortunate, and its gonna Fuck people up. I really hope people research things so they don't hurt themselves. All I could find, anything even close to a study is this link,

https://academic.oup.com/biomedgero...Week-Improvements-in-Muscle-Mass-and-Strength

And it doesn't prove shit, maybe I should run it anyways......baha lol, I don't think so lol. I know we want the proof of such claims, if it has been scientifically studied and proof is there that is a way different story, all I can find is claims that can't be backed up, or Im blind....I might be blind lol


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[DylanGemelli]

you are not blind whatsoever... its complete bull shit and a lot of people are going to suffer because of this and i just cannot believe it would ever be advised... i just cant wrap my head around it