cybrsage said:
Is there any type of interaction, worry, etc., about being on an SSRI and using AAS / SARMs / Peptides? I know this is a very generic question, but I am not sure how to narrow it down.
I do know one of the side effects of SSRIs, and one I suffer from, is the inability to achieve orgasm. I discovered IPT-141 and found it to completely counter-act that problem. Who would have EVER created an anti-depression drug that causes men to not be able to finish what they start? Seriously!?!
Anyway, my psychologist is a good one who says such drugs are short term use only, as a kick start to help through a tough time. I am still recovering from the devastation wrought upon me when I became hypogonadist (not sure if that is the correct term - my test levels dropped to 153). I did not know it for a few years, then went on androgel. I was one of the unlucky 1% of users who suffered bad mental side effects. They were dysphoria, hostility, anxiety, and topped with a nice layer of paranoia. The paranoia prevented me from believing people who said I was going crazy. One day the logical side of me said I should do an experiment, just to prove everyone was wrong. I would stop using for two weeks and see what happens. If I was crazy, the effects should wear off. If not, then I could prove everyone ELSE was crazy. I stopped using it and my mind cleared. I started again, being mindful of the effects, and all the bad started to return. I told my endocrinologist about it and she said it was impossible. I fired her.
I talked to my GP (great guy) who put me in touch with his personal eurologist - even made a call to him to get me in faster. The urologist said it was impossible to have a reaction to testosterone, but the DELIVERY METHOD was a different story. We then tried Axiron. It made me sweat - so much I sweated all the test right out and after 3 months I was no better.
I was resistant to needles, but I knew I needed to go for it and so I did. After a bit I started to laugh at myself - what was all the fuss about with needles? I now am a happy camper who will inject for life.
So, back to my question. I will be taking an SSRI for the next 8 months. I will also be using 1mg of IPT-141 once a week as well, to remove the terrible side effect from the SSRI. What should I be mindful about?
Hey brother... I have A LOT of experience with this as I have come to find that most of my clients are on or have been on these at some point so I actually have this question on my initial questionnaire now about whether a person is or has been on any anti-depressant related medications because it is very important to know when AAS are involved... I have not seen any correlation in my many years of experience with sarms and peptides use with clients on these medications however when it comes to AAS, it can be a far different story... I have some bits of information for you to look at with regards to that... I have two clients at this time whom are actually on SSRI's and have had nothing but excellent results with sarms and peptides use but as soon as we introduce testosterone there is issues with them being all over the place and I found the direct correlation through hands on experience not to mention through several studies throughout that I have come upon... There are always exceptions to the rules but they are few and far between... Here is what I have for you to marinate on...
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Q: I've heard many anti-anxiety and anti-depression meds can have negative bodybuilding consequences when one is also using steroids. Is that true?
A: Caution should be used if one is using anti-anxiety meds like benzodiazepines. The reason? Well, some androgens like Testosterone and stanozolol can prevent these benzodiazepines from binding to receptor sites and thus preventing them from exerting any action. This could cause a severe case of anxiety for that person.
The same thing applies for drugs used to treat depression. Caution should be used with those using SSRI's as some androgens may increase or enhance serotonin levels or their actions. To further complicate things, some can even reduce serotonin levels. Either way, this would require the person to account for this and then readjust his dosage of that particular SSRI.
The same issue applies with MAOI's as androgens like D-bol may increase epinephrine levels. In combination with an MAOI, this could lead to a significant increase in blood pressure and heart rate, and thus could lead to some serious side effects if not monitored closely. The same applies if an androgen increases or decreases MAO levels as this would require one to readjust the dosage.
Now, in reality, there isn't a large risk involved with these drugs and concurrent use of androgens, but caution is warranted and dosages should be adjusted accordingly if the patient finds that the drug or drugs aren't as effective as they were prior to androgen usage.
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Antidepressant effects on Cycles " BodyBuilding
In today’s sometimes overly stressful world many people are turning to medication, in a study performed in 2005 it showed that 27 million Americans were taking antidepressants, this represents roughly 10% of the population at the time, since then this number has certainly continued to rise as studies show antidepressant usage has been on a continual increase. Since our site caters to adult men, it should also be noted that usage continues to rise significantly among adult men as well.
But what this article is really about is users taking antidepressants and how they affect anabolic steroid/pro-hormone cycles, post cycle therapy, testosterone levels and in general building muscle. There are thousands of questions on popular internet message boards (such as
www.leanbulk.com/forum) regarding antidepressant usage and anabolic steroid cycles, we won’t go into detail about how these antidepressants effect depression and anxiety, only how they affect bodybuilding and steroid usage.
SSRI (Selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor)
Below are the five of the most common and popular SSRI products.
Lexapro
Celexa
Paxil
Zoloft
Prozac
SNRI (Serotonin-norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor)
Below are the three of the most common and popular SNRI products.
Effexor
Cymbalta
Pristiq
Testosterone Levels
Obviously as a bodybuilder, athlete or serious lifter you know how important testosterone is to the male body, there have been some recent studies that suggest SSRI’s in particular can cause reduced testosterone levels, unfortunately there haven’t been any extensive studies to prove or disprove this notion. Most of the information we were able to find is mostly individual users starting an SSRI and getting blood work done to show the lowered values, it should be noted that there is extensive blood work to support the theory that SSRI’s lower testosterone levels in many users.
Having watched a friend lose his mother due to cancer he turned to an SSRI (Lexapro) to help cope with the depression, while it worked wonders for his mental state, he made little progress in the gym while on Lexapro for a year, several months ago he came off the medication and has begun to add muscle pretty quickly. Nothing has changed in his routine or dietary habits to support the growth, everything is pointing back to the Lexapro.
Here is one study that was performed: Antidepressant-Induced Low Serum Free Testosterone
So at this point it should be generalized that an SSRI can potentially affect testosterone levels. It’s also possible SNRI’s could have similar results, however there is less information about this.
Post Cycle Therapy
This is where things get sticky, if you’re a smart anabolic steroid/pro-hormone user, you probably complete a PCT (post cycle therapy) after your cycle and if you’re a really smart user, you probably use a prescription grade PCT consisting of i.e Nolvadex (Tamoxifen Citrate).
Nolvadex uses an enzyme ‘CYP2D6? to convert itself into a more useful form that our bodies can use. Unfortunately many antidepressants also use this same CYP2D6 enzyme, thus you have two medications competing for the same pathway. The problem? Antidepressants have priority on the CYP2D6 enzyme therefore can render Nolvadex to be nearly useless, which could cause serious side effects during our PCT such as Gynecomastia. If you’re on an antidepressant and intend on using Nolvadex as your PCT, it’s important for you to know which antidepressants will cause issue and if you’re on an antidepressant that will inhibit Nolvadex from being functional, we recommend going with Clomid or Fareston (Toremifene Citrate) instead for your PCT. Below is a list provided by BreastCancer.org showing which SSRI " SNRI are strong to moderate inhibitors and those that are not.
Strong Inhibitors
Generic Names Brand Names
Bupropion Wellbutrin
Fluoxetine Prozac
Paroxetine Paxil
Quinidine Cardioquin
Moderate Inhibitors
Generic Names Brand Names
Duloxetine Cymbalta
Sertraline Zoloft
Diphenhydramine Benadryl
Thioridazine Mellaril
Amiodarone Cordarone
Trazodone Desyrel
Cimetidine Tagamet
SSRIs and SNRIs That Are Not Inhibitors
Generic Names Brand Names
Venlavaxine Effexor
Citalopram Celexa
Escitalopram Lexapro
We also did some research on another very popular (and newish) SNRI named Pristiq (Desvenlafaxine) it’s independent of CYP2D6 enzyme therefore shouldn’t negatively interact with Nolvadex.
Weight Gain
One of the largest issues in particular with some SSRI’s is unwelcomed weight gain, while some bodybuilders would welcome some additional help putting on weight, the majority of this weight comes in the form of fat particularly in the stomach, chest and back areas. The evidence is conclusive that the majority of SSRI’s can and will cause some form of weight gain, studies have shown that SSRI’s can/will reduce a users metabolism to some degree, however as to why SSRI’s slow down a bodies metabolism remains unknown. Even an active healthy adult that eats a balanced diet can experience weight gain. In some cases weight gain in upwards of 30+ lbs is experienced on longer term SSRI usage. SNRI’s on the other hand have a much less likely chance of causing unwelcomed weight gain, in the event SNRI’s cause weight gain it’s typically significantly less than with an SSRI.
Prolactin Levels
There is significant medical information that ‘some’ SSRI’s handily increase prolactin levels, prolactin is certainly something users want to keep under control especially on cycle as high prolactin levels can cause puffyness/swelling of breast tissue, lactating breasts (even in men), headaches, infertility, decreased sex drive and more. Users should run prolactin control supplements (i.e P-5-P, Vitex, L-Dopa) to keep prolactin levels at bay on cycle.
Sexual Side Effects
As you may know when doing an anabolic steroid/pro-hormone cycle, some users experience a lowered libido, or in rare cases impotence, which in most cases is certainly undesirable. Virtually all antidepressants aside from Wellbutrin (atypical antidepressant) have some risk of causing sexual dysfunction which can result in lowered libido, impotence or the inability to climax. Those taking an antidepressant and cycling have an increased risk as both can negatively impact a users libido or sexual function.
Fatigue / Lethargy
Another common side effect of Antidepressants is fatigue and lethargy, which also happens to be a quite a common issue on some anabolic steroid/pro-hormone cycles, in some cases lethargy and fatigue can prevent some cycles from being highly successful, so take this into consideration when cycling on an antidepressant the combination of lethargy/fatigue enhancing drugs can cripple a cycle.
