Secretagogues and SARMS to INCREASE appetite

[boimoit]

Hello everyone!

I've posted prior about my TRT regimen and subsequent queries about going on a T. Cypionate/Nandrolone cycle. Dylan and crew were helpful. I then had additional questions but felt they warranted a new thread due to the change in topic.

My stats: Age 48/5'6" tall/155lbs/bf of 14-15% and have been cruising on TRT (75mgs/wk T. Cypionate for over 8 yrs with Test levels in the 600ng/dl on average range.


My question to Dylan or anyone that wishes to chime in:

1. After researching, I came across the secretagogue MK-677, and although "technically" it isn't a SARM, I guess it's just included in with the group. Can I take 25mg/day along side my 12-14 wk cycle of T. Cypionate/Nandrolone Decanoate (250-300mg/ml of each weekly) to assist in stimulating my appetite while "ON" this blast cycle?

2. You mentioned "SARMS Duo's" and I looked into LGD-4033's ability to also increase appetite as well. So I'm going to assume that the synergy between MK-677 and LGD-4033 should be my 1-2 punch to stimulate my appetite?

3. Does LGD-4033's mechanism of action involve ghrelin release like MK-677 provides or does it work on a different pathway (ie: by reducing levels of the satiety hormone Leptin?)

4. Do you recommend I try MK-677 first for say 1-2 months and see what I experience, prior to the addition of LGD-4033?

5. I realize MK-677 must be ran for an entire 12 months straight. Does there need to be any "time off" taking MK-677?

6. I researched that LGD-4033 is a SARM that needs to be cycled for about 12 weeks then followed by PCT (for those that aren't on Testosterone Replacement Therapy), as it can cause some suppression. Being that I'm on TRT (75mg/wk T. Cypionate), can LGD-4033 be cycled for 12 wks alongside my TRT dose then upon completion of the LGD-4033 dosing, I just continue cruising on TRT?

Again, keeping in mind that my purpose for taking MK-677 and possibly stacking it with LGD-4033 is for the synergistic effect on INCREASING appetite. Any other benefits received, such as strength gains etc - to me - are just an added perk (whether on T. Cypionate/Nandrolone Decanoate or when later resumption on cruising my TRT dose)

7. I feel it best to go on one secretagogue/SARM at a time and for at least a few weeks to see if there are any "sides" prior to adding something else to the mix then having to guess WHICH one is producing the sides. And I realize that most sides from SARMS are due to taking too high a dose outside of the recommended range.

8. Are there any discounts or specials going on if I decide to embark on this secretagogue/SARMS journey, if I were to order multiple vials from SARMSX at once?

Thank you for the assist brother and all, and I thoroughly enjoy Dylan's videos and all the knowledge you all possess and share with everyone.

 

[Jeffander]

Mk-677 definitly increases hunger.

 

[DylanGemelli]

Hello everyone!

I've posted prior about my TRT regimen and subsequent queries about going on a T. Cypionate/Nandrolone cycle. Dylan and crew were helpful. I then had additional questions but felt they warranted a new thread due to the change in topic.

My stats: Age 48/5'6" tall/155lbs/bf of 14-15% and have been cruising on TRT (75mgs/wk T. Cypionate for over 8 yrs with Test levels in the 600ng/dl on average range.


My question to Dylan or anyone that wishes to chime in:

1. After researching, I came across the secretagogue MK-677, and although "technically" it isn't a SARM, I guess it's just included in with the group. Can I take 25mg/day along side my 12-14 wk cycle of T. Cypionate/Nandrolone Decanoate (250-300mg/ml of each weekly) to assist in stimulating my appetite while "ON" this blast cycle?

2. You mentioned "SARMS Duo's" and I looked into LGD-4033's ability to also increase appetite as well. So I'm going to assume that the synergy between MK-677 and LGD-4033 should be my 1-2 punch to stimulate my appetite?

3. Does LGD-4033's mechanism of action involve ghrelin release like MK-677 provides or does it work on a different pathway (ie: by reducing levels of the satiety hormone Leptin?)

4. Do you recommend I try MK-677 first for say 1-2 months and see what I experience, prior to the addition of LGD-4033?

5. I realize MK-677 must be ran for an entire 12 months straight. Does there need to be any "time off" taking MK-677?

6. I researched that LGD-4033 is a SARM that needs to be cycled for about 12 weeks then followed by PCT (for those that aren't on Testosterone Replacement Therapy), as it can cause some suppression. Being that I'm on TRT (75mg/wk T. Cypionate), can LGD-4033 be cycled for 12 wks alongside my TRT dose then upon completion of the LGD-4033 dosing, I just continue cruising on TRT?

Again, keeping in mind that my purpose for taking MK-677 and possibly stacking it with LGD-4033 is for the synergistic effect on INCREASING appetite. Any other benefits received, such as strength gains etc - to me - are just an added perk (whether on T. Cypionate/Nandrolone Decanoate or when later resumption on cruising my TRT dose)

7. I feel it best to go on one secretagogue/SARM at a time and for at least a few weeks to see if there are any "sides" prior to adding something else to the mix then having to guess WHICH one is producing the sides. And I realize that most sides from SARMS are due to taking too high a dose outside of the recommended range.

8. Are there any discounts or specials going on if I decide to embark on this secretagogue/SARMS journey, if I were to order multiple vials from SARMSX at once?

Thank you for the assist brother and all, and I thoroughly enjoy Dylan's videos and all the knowledge you all possess and share with everyone.

1. yes, absolutley you can...

2. yes, thats a great way to add an increase in appetite...

3. it is NOT a secretagogue and i never said it increased appetite anywhere near that extent so im not sure what you are referencing...

4. you can do it either way, it just depends on your goals... lgd is going to give huge increases in strength and add a really nice amount of size...

5. no

6. yes that is correct

7. no, you are fine on the sides...

8. if you pay by bank transfer, they offer a 20% discount

 

[RickRock]

Mk677 does pretty well on increasing hunger for a lot of people, not to mention the other benefits it offers for body composition, sleep, fullness, pumps, etc...

 

[DylanGemelli]

let me know if you have any further questions

 

[jp1957]

I dont find lgd to impact my hunger, but mk677 makes me want to eat the neighbors kids.

 

[boimoit]

Thanks for the response RickRock.

As you know I've been on TRT (T.Cypionate 75mgs/wk) for 8 yrs. Last week i started a cycle of T. Cypionate 250mg + Nandrolone Decanoate 250mg + Cabergoline .25mg E3D and .25mg Arimidex E2D. The AAS's will be increased to 300mg/wk within the next 2 wks or so (depending on how I feel).

My diet is getting much better and I'm increasing cardio on my "off" days.

I was looking for a SARM that would increase my appetite as well as act synergistically to the Cyp & Deca. My main point is to increase the 28 amino-acid peptide Ghrelin, as it also has a strong GH releasing activity. I remember as a kid, researching ghrelin and at the time (late 80's, early 90's) there was no way for an oral to pass thru the blood brain barrier. Until MK-677 came along. So now that's been out for quite some time, I feel more comfortable in trying it. I was told that the appetite stimulatory effects of MK-677 dissipate over a period of weeks, yet others say it stays with you throughout the entire cruise. Also I believe it's dose dependent (some say all you need is 5-10mg in the morning to stimulate appetite during the eating hours, but some say this also causes extreme lethargy. Others say to dose MK-677 an hr before bed so that it stimulates more intense pulsing of HGH within the first 90 mins of sleep, and provides a much deeper REM sleep etc. I suppose it's discretionary and the results vary with everyone. I believe Dylan recommends 25mg of MK-677 but I think that I may want to err on the side of caution and start off with less and slowly titrate up until I experience some of the unpleasant sides I've heard about (ie: numbness in extremeties and extreme lethargy). Not sure if the lethargy is involving insulin resistance or what not, but I'm going to take it slow for a month or two, and slowly increase the dose.

Seeing as how once I'm done with the 12-14 wk blast of AAS, I now you all recommend a PCT stack for NON TRT users, but was wondering if any of the products in your SARMS-X line would be of benefit to the guy that intends on resuming the cruise on a mere 75mg T. Cypionate.

I decided to continue taking the Caber & Arimidex for a couple weeks post AAS cycle, just to help prevent the last bit of conversion to prolactin from the Deca and estrogen from the T. Cypionate. Although I do have a copious amt of Nolvadex on hand from previous cycles, I don't think its necessary for me to dose it 2-3 weeks after my last pin, as increasing FSH & LH isn't what TRT patients need to do.

I haven't reviewed all the SARMS formulations, but if you think there's anything I could take toward the end of the 14wk AAS cycle that can help me maintain my gains, I'd be willing to incorporate that into the 75mg/wk cruise for whatever period of time you recommend, as I believe most of these SARMS need to be cycled versus the MK-677 secretagogue which can be taken in perpetuity.

Sorry for the long post once again!

 

[boimoit]

jp1957 what was the dose of Mk-677 you took and did you experiment with taking it in the waking hours, early afternoon, right before workouts in the early evening, or within an hr of bed time? I'm shooting for the most appetite stimulating window of opportunity but didn't know if once you build up a blood volume of endogenously enhanced HGH, if it matters what time of day you take it, as it's circulating through your body once blood volume is stable taking it the same time each day.

Would love to hear your personal regimen and thoughts on how you felt, any bad sides, and dosing parameters.

Thanks to all you bro's and Dylan for helping educate me in this area of SARMS, as its relatively new to me. In my past I've written research papers on Anabolic/Androgenic hormones, but that was in the early 90's and we've come a long way since then.

 

[DylanGemelli]

Thanks for the response RickRock.

As you know I've been on TRT (T.Cypionate 75mgs/wk) for 8 yrs. Last week i started a cycle of T. Cypionate 250mg + Nandrolone Decanoate 250mg + Cabergoline .25mg E3D and .25mg Arimidex E2D. The AAS's will be increased to 300mg/wk within the next 2 wks or so (depending on how I feel).

My diet is getting much better and I'm increasing cardio on my "off" days.

I was looking for a SARM that would increase my appetite as well as act synergistically to the Cyp & Deca. My main point is to increase the 28 amino-acid peptide Ghrelin, as it also has a strong GH releasing activity. I remember as a kid, researching ghrelin and at the time (late 80's, early 90's) there was no way for an oral to pass thru the blood brain barrier. Until MK-677 came along. So now that's been out for quite some time, I feel more comfortable in trying it. I was told that the appetite stimulatory effects of MK-677 dissipate over a period of weeks, yet others say it stays with you throughout the entire cruise. Also I believe it's dose dependent (some say all you need is 5-10mg in the morning to stimulate appetite during the eating hours, but some say this also causes extreme lethargy. Others say to dose MK-677 an hr before bed so that it stimulates more intense pulsing of HGH within the first 90 mins of sleep, and provides a much deeper REM sleep etc. I suppose it's discretionary and the results vary with everyone. I believe Dylan recommends 25mg of MK-677 but I think that I may want to err on the side of caution and start off with less and slowly titrate up until I experience some of the unpleasant sides I've heard about (ie: numbness in extremeties and extreme lethargy). Not sure if the lethargy is involving insulin resistance or what not, but I'm going to take it slow for a month or two, and slowly increase the dose.

Seeing as how once I'm done with the 12-14 wk blast of AAS, I now you all recommend a PCT stack for NON TRT users, but was wondering if any of the products in your SARMS-X line would be of benefit to the guy that intends on resuming the cruise on a mere 75mg T. Cypionate.

I decided to continue taking the Caber & Arimidex for a couple weeks post AAS cycle, just to help prevent the last bit of conversion to prolactin from the Deca and estrogen from the T. Cypionate. Although I do have a copious amt of Nolvadex on hand from previous cycles, I don't think its necessary for me to dose it 2-3 weeks after my last pin, as increasing FSH & LH isn't what TRT patients need to do.

I haven't reviewed all the SARMS formulations, but if you think there's anything I could take toward the end of the 14wk AAS cycle that can help me maintain my gains, I'd be willing to incorporate that into the 75mg/wk cruise for whatever period of time you recommend, as I believe most of these SARMS need to be cycled versus the MK-677 secretagogue which can be taken in perpetuity.

Sorry for the long post once again!

hey brother... question for you... you asked if there was a product that would benefit you when you intend to resume cruising... what kind of benefit are you looking for so i can give you the proper recommendation? let me know bro... you are very welcome for the help... you are a bit long winded but i LOVE the attention to detail... just keep in mind, i have thousands of questions to day so try to keep it reasonable for me to get through... let me know bro

 

[boimoit]

Hey Dylan

First let me apologize for my apparent long winded diatribes. It's just that when it comes to my health and well being, I like to be as informative as possible when asking questions. And you don't get to yell at me for not providing enough, like you do to the others - lol.

Presently I'm taking 250mg of T. Cypionate and Nandrolone Decanoate, .25 Cabergoline/Arimidex etc.

My issue has always been poor appetite and high adrenaline/high cortisol levels. I've been chronically stressed due to quite a few family and relationship issues but that's something for Jerry Springer to "fix".

I've been taking the ayurvedic herb Ashwagandha to help lower cortisol levels but been on it for 8 weeks and haven't noticed much. My appetite has been "for shit" for a long time, so my goal was to find something that would enhance appetite. I didn't want to try Megestrol Acetate oral suspension due to it's side effects, so was happy to have stumbled across the HGH + Ghrelin stimulatory effects of MK-677. I've been told (again, don't get mad lol) that 25mgs of MK-677 may be a bit much for a first time user of this secretagogue. I'm thinking to start at 5mg in the morning and see how it affects me (lethargy, headaches, appetite stimulation), versus taking it at night (improved sleep, increased pulsing of HGH especially during the 1st 90 min of sleep when HGH is naturally pulsing more rapidly than any other time of the day, and wondering if i'll wake up with headaches and/or hand, arm numbness etc). So I'm erring on the side of caution and feel it best to titrate my dose and time of day dosing based upon how I feel.

Have you hung yourself yet?

Ok, so after my AAS cycle, I'll be cruising back on the 75mg/wk of T. Cypionate and would want to incorporate a SARMS stack that would assist in keeping a decent portion of my gains, as well as continuing to increase my appetite. Because I'll be continuing to take Testosterone for life, I'm suppressed and wont need anything to stimulate LH/FSH. I'll also be resuming blood lab testing by my Endo every 6 months but he doesn't test for HGH. He only tests for Thyroid (I'm hypothyroid), TSH, Free & Total Testosterone and the basic CMP/CBC, hemoglobin/hematocrit & Cholesterol panel. So id like to cruise on something that just keeps me feeling "hard" and "energetic" and with a good appetite. Is there a formula specific to reduce cortisol levels?

Whatever you suggest Dylan, I trust your opinion.

I enjoy your videos and checked out your Facebook page. I subscribed or "followed" or whatever the hell that's called. I'm new to Facebook but enjoy checking out your videos and its cool to know your just an average guy with a family, tryin to make a living. I wouldn't mind somehow networking with you/your organization, so if your looking for talent, I can free up time. What I do for a living is quite interesting and I'm always in front of a PC at my home. You can PM me for contact info.

Thanks again for struggling through another one of my novels. You'll never get that 10 minutes back so I hope you were at least eating a sandwich or something while reading.

Best!!

 

[DylanGemelli]

LOL i love your facebook references... im cracking up but thats still awesome you are following man, i appreciate the support! I try to show everyone who I am on facebook and instagram... As you can see, Im a big family guy and my whole life is based around God, my family, and everyone here and all the people that watch me and I hopefully help and teach... thats what im all about...

So, for your cortisol control, ashwaghanda is a nice herb but for what you want from it, as you can see, that shit is not happening! its nothing drastic but if you run it with something stronger, then it provides that extra boost... simple fix... GW501516... that is the key... now, for your goals, you dont need anything crazy for a stack... while you cruise, use mk677 obviously but then add GW501516 and S4... PERFECT for your goals, and will have you on a completely different level than you could expect... you can run gw 16 weeks at a time and s4 12 weeks... then you only need 4 weeks off of each before you can run them again... this would be absolutely perfect for what you want and need... also, if you want to ease into mk677, (which is not necessary) DO NOT only use 5 mg... I DO NOT want you to waste money being that its not cheap... you would literally be wasting it... if you are intent on moving slower, at the MINIMUM, use 12.5 mg per day, which would be half a dropper... if you feel lethargic during the day, then switch to night time dosing...

 

[boimoit]

Thanks for the very fast reply Dylan. I thought you were in the hospital or something. Hope your ok.

Yes I'm new to social media. Just got a FB account about 7 mos ago but no Twitter. I'm in front of my PC all day grinding away trading equities and dabbling in real estate, so I have plenty of time and screen space (8 monitors) haha. It's great to know your a family man and earning a living helping people improve the quality of their lives. I don't know much about your company, how it began or where it's at presently, but I hope to help you out by helping to educate others about AAS alternatives and sending folks your way.

GW501516 = Cardarine ( I had to google search it), but I've heard of it and did a little research on it a few days ago. I recall it's great for endurance and I believe when stacked alongside S4, its a decent fat burner. Not sure what the dose would be on each, and I also had a question about dosing SARMS in general. In much the same way as a 250lb guy could drink a 6 pack to catch a decent buzz, yet a 130lb guy only needs 2 beers to catch one, is SARMS dosing similar with regards to how much weight you carry?

Re: MK677, I have a question that you might find interesting, or perhaps you've been asked a million times and want to pound me in the cranium for making you answer once again - but - here goes:

If the half like of MK677 is 24 hrs, after just 1-2 days of starting to take it (regardless of whether dosing daytime or night time), don't you build up a blood volume where HGH/Ghrelin/IGF-1 has reached a therapeutic range that remains static over the course of at least 12 hrs, where I would imagine it's affects begin to reduce down over the next 12 hrs when half of the secretagogue has cleared the system ?

I understand that if you wanted to increase your appetite, you'd naturally take it in the morning so that over the course of your normal daily into the evening hours, you are awake and eating. But if this secretagogue indeed has a half life of 24 hrs, with continued dosing every 24 hrs, does it make a difference what time it's taken if your therapeutic blood volume remains fairly static? Ok, I asked the same question two times but in slightly different wording just to make you squint and shake your head. But I think u see what I'm getting at.

People claim that when they dose a certain SARM in the daytime, it causes such and such but when they dose it in the evening, then they don't feel such and such in the day time - but I'm thinking how is this possible if 24 hr dosing is keeping therapeutic blood levels static each and every minute of each and every day?

Ok that's the 3rd time, and even I'm disgusted with myself.

I'm just going to take a guess and assume that ANY "drug" kicks in harder within an hour or so of taking it (Percocet, Xanax etc) but euphoric effects taper off hours later due to a far shorter half life. But SARMS half lives are far longer, so its confusing.

Thanks for the Suggestions. S4 is a SARM I've yet to familiarize myself with but will get on that ASAP.

Thanks brother and I hope to hear back whenever you have the time - and feel better if what I read was true that you weren't feelin so hot.

 

[DylanGemelli]

yes, i had surgery today but im still here answering questions...

no, sarms dosing is NOT weight dependent...

you can take your dose any time of the day you want... just keep it consistently dosed 24 hours apart... you are overthinking and that reflects on the fact you asked the same question, in slightly different versions, three times... it doesnt matter what time of the day you take it, you are going to have the same type of hunger either way... trust me, you will see... some people find that if they take it at night it interferes with their sleep patterns while others sleep the best they ever have... in general, 677 improves sleep quality to a very high extent.. .in certain instances, you just have to test it out to see which dosing time works for you...

you are just overthinking... this is not like taking prescription drugs... like ibuprofein can take nearly 2 hours to kick in while xanax is much quicker... same holds true for different sarms with different half lives... s4 is fast acting in terms of just a few days to see it working while lgd can take 2 weeks and sometime more... it just depends and some people are fast responders... i respond to things far quicker than one should and you have to take things like that into account as well...