Kick starting cycle with.... a cut?

[tumtum]

So I always kickstart every bulk with a moderate cut to prime myself, increase insulin sensitivity.. etc

The one cycle I have done I did it post bodybuilding show.. after a 12 wk prep (it went extremely well till a neck injury 6 wks in and I lost everything and then some because I couldn't lift for 8 wks)

Has anyone ever dieted into a cycle, and continues the deficit for the first 2-3 wks of the cycle? Even short esters aren't going to show anything till 2 weeks in... so why not continue to prime and then when it's time to slam food have your body really primed plus have amazing test levels??

Asking for a friend

 

[RickRock]

Personally I think it's ass backwards to do that for a few reasons.

1) myostatin rises as the cycke goes on, so your window for gains in only about 8 to 10 weeks before it's at peak and muscle gain is stalled and halted. Capitalize on the first half to two thirds of the cycle with a caloric surplus and then when gains stall, cut and clean up gains and capitalize on the muscle preservation properties of anabolics

2) cutting just before bulking is like taking a step forward just to take two steps back and erase anything you accomplished with cutting

3) contrary to broscience, aas starts working right away. You don't need to wait until peak concentration to start trying to make gains. Thats just the point where most people notice it and the changes...however gains are cumulative and started from the beginning

 

[tumtum]

Personally I think it's ass backwards to do that for a few reasons.

1) myostatin rises as the cycke goes on, so your window for gains in only about 8 to 10 weeks before it's at peak and muscle gain is stalled and halted. Capitalize on the first half to two thirds of the cycle with a caloric surplus and then when gains stall, cut and clean up gains and capitalize on the muscle preservation properties of anabolics

2) cutting just before bulking is like taking a step forward just to take two steps back and erase anything you accomplished with cutting

3) contrary to broscience, aas starts working right away. You don't need to wait until peak concentration to start trying to make gains. Thats just the point where most people notice it and the changes...however gains are cumulative and started from the beginning

I can agree with everything.. except #2 Are u saying that u always think dieting before a bulk is a waste? I don't agree with that at all. Maybe I'm misunderstanding u and u only mean if u are using your weeks on gear to diet.

 

[RickRock]

I can agree with everything.. accept #2 Are u saying that u always think dieting before a bulk is a waste? I don't agree with that at all. Maybe I'm misunderstanding u and u only mean if u are using your weeks on gear to diet.

What I meant by that is the traditional way to bulk usually involves accepting at least a certain margin of fat gain. Otherwise you can compromise gains if you go for no fat gain. So losing fat to just put it back on and then some is my analogy and why I don't think it makes sense at the beginning of a cycle

 

[tumtum]

I can see how looking at it like that it wouldn't make sense..

However that's literally the only way I can put on size.. I have to almost create an environment that needs calories and muscle..

But even with that.. if I know I'm going to put on 3 pounds of muscle and 5 pounds of fat.. I would prefer to diet off that fat so the next time I'm striving for muscle gain.. I don't add another 5 pounds on top of that 5 pounds.. the diets keep me in check. Lee my hunger levels where they need to be.. and I flat out don't grow without that.. different strokes for different folks

 

[EZ_E]

Bump Rick on all points. As we've all said for years dieting and training are the basis of any bulk or cut. You should be increasing calories and training for a bulk as long as you can before your gains stall and then incorporate the cycle.

And also bump Rick on the fact you have to accept a little bit of fat and water in order to move the bigger weights and thus get a bigger body.

 

[RickRock]

I can see how looking at it like that it wouldn't make sense..

However that's literally the only way I can put on size.. I have to almost create an environment that needs calories and muscle..

But even with that.. if I know I'm going to put on 3 pounds of muscle and 5 pounds of fat.. I would prefer to diet off that fat so the next time I'm striving for muscle gain.. I don't add another 5 pounds on top of that 5 pounds.. the diets keep me in check. Lee my hunger levels where they need to be.. and I flat out don't grow without that.. different strokes for different folks

Well bro, it's one of those things where if that's what you want to do, just go for it. There's no cookie cutter stuff that works for everyone anyways, and sometimes it's just trial and error to figure out what's best for you.

Just because I have my opinion on it and wouldn't do that myself certainly doesn't mean you can't.

You posted the thread for input on these ideas so I gave mine. Somebody else may have a different opinion on it on how they do things.

As I always say, do what works for you. Not what works for everyone else

 

[tumtum]

Hoping I wasn't coming off as confrontational.. I was enjoying the discussion. Always looking to pick people's brains and philosophies

 

[DylanGemelli]

you definitely have to understand that if you are going to bulk, there is a sacrifice that has to be made... i guarantee you that you will not find anyone that is as strict as regimented as i am bro... good luck there.. i eat the same fucking thing at the same fucking time 7 days a week, i do 100 minutes of cardio six days a week etc... i KNEW that last cycle i attempted to bulk, which i put on 25 lbs that a sacrifice had to be made. .mentally, it mind fucked me but i had to accept it, EVER with my strict lifestyle... now im different in one aspect... im generally a pure cutter no matter what... that was a step outside my comfort zone and realm but i did it to test the waters and give something new a chance and to shut people the fuck up that criticize me to show how i can do whatever i want, whenever i want but i have ran MANY cycles going into them cutting from the onset or eating at a deficit, still knowing how to add lean muscle in the process through diet manipulation based on how MY body responds and still using good muscle sparing compounds... one thing you have to realize is that all rules dont apply to everyone in terms of scientifically what you should be capable of... you just have to figure that out FOR YOURSELF... i can educate you 24 hours a fucking day but you still might not fit the bill.. i know that i dont in many regards... so i always so, here are the basics, here is what is SUPPOSED to be the way but you may be different in how you respond...

 

[tumtum]

Didn't mean to be spoon fed info. Just never saw something like this discussed. I understand having to put on fat in order to grow. It's taken me 15 years of not falling off the wagon to go from 135-175 in this condition. Many many months have been spent being fluffy.. Not trying to be an ass but I understand a good bit. I just had the idea of priming early in a cycle and wondered if anyone has ever played with the idea.

Sorry pics are sideways haha. Not sure why. Ps love the YouTube vids Dylan

 

[DylanGemelli]

shit you look absolutely awesome bro... i never thought you were trying to spoon fed anything at all... i was just giving you my thoughts and how i go about things.. you never sounded like an ass in any way, shape or form... i know where you are coming from, trust me bro

 

[tumtum]

shit you look absolutely awesome bro... i never thought you were trying to spoon fed anything at all... i was just giving you my thoughts and how i go about things.. you never sounded like an ass in any way, shape or form... i know where you are coming from, trust me bro

Thanks man. I was like "fuck..2 of guys I like the most think I'm wanting someone to hold my hand haha" I just like to challenge the conventional thought process and see if ppl have ever tried some off the wall shit.

I've actually never completed a cycle.. my first attempt ended with me catching the flu on wk 4 so I pulled out and my last one ended 6 wks in when I injured my neck.... FUCK..

Well that was 14 wks ago so now I'm wanting to try to make it through one haha.. maybe in 2 weeks throw down on about 400mg of test

 

[DylanGemelli]

Thanks man. I was like "fuck..2 of guys I like the most think I'm wanting someone to hold my hand haha" I just like to challenge the conventional thought process and see if ppl have ever tried some off the wall shit.

I've actually never completed a cycle.. my first attempt ended with me catching the flu on wk 4 so I pulled out and my last one ended 6 wks in when I injured my neck.... FUCK..

Well that was 14 wks ago so now I'm wanting to try to make it through one haha.. maybe in 2 weeks throw down on about 400mg of test

shit no bro, i never once thought that and im sure rick never did either... you ask anytime you need my help man