IM vs. Sub Q

[ironlifter36]

I recently started TRT and am doing IM injections. I have a buddy, also on TRT, whose Doc has him do Sub Q injections. I did a little research and read the difference really being the depth of the injection. The article also offered up some other advantages for Sub Q. However, I have not seen or read anything in the threads about Sub Q, leading me to believe IM is the better and preferred method. Can anyone provide some thoughts based on practical experience?

 

[cmb5017]

Somewhere drb wrote about it. He did an experiment, tried the different ways to see if it made a difference..I think he concluded it didn't matter if I'm not mistaken...it's in here somewhere

 

[ironlifter36]

Somewhere drb wrote about it. He did an experiment, tried the different ways to see if it made a difference..I think he concluded it didn't matter if I'm not mistaken...it's in here somewhere

Thanks...I will do some more digging and see if I can find it.

 

[cmb5017]

Shoot him a pm...I'm sure he'd be glad to tell u about it

 

[cbbram00]

I think you're limited on the amount you can inject SubQ so you would have to do it more often. I've been doing SubQ with HGH... It's easy once you get the hang of it.

Pharma Lady Rep

 

[TX TERROR]

I have done several cycles sub q. Its totally fine. Very little variance between the two when it comes to results. I just do sub q to give sites a break. Then I moved to doing sub q cause its convenient as hell. I can just pin in the gym parking lot if need be lol.

 

[ironlifter36]

Thanks guys for the info!

 

[Bio-Tech]

It all works the same but IM injections are more comfortable due to the thickness of the oil being injected

 

[ironlifter36]

It all works the same but IM injections are more comfortable due to the thickness of the oil being injected

Thank you!

 

[RickRock]

I recently started TRT and am doing IM injections. I have a buddy, also on TRT, whose Doc has him do Sub Q injections. I did a little research and read the difference really being the depth of the injection. The article also offered up some other advantages for Sub Q. However, I have not seen or read anything in the threads about Sub Q, leading me to believe IM is the better and preferred method. Can anyone provide some thoughts based on practical experience?

One thing you have to keep in mind with subq, is that the oil volume has to be extremely low, or else your risk of infection or abcess is very high. I'm talking like no more than 0.3ml of oil, which means,you'd probably have to pin at least a couple times a week to get your dose on trt.

As others pointed out, it makes no difference on results, so I would just stick to the tried and true method of IM

(PM me for a price list for Biotech Labs and 10% discount)

 

[TexasTrash]

Ive done both IM and sub Q and results were pretty similar but my testosterone levels were slightly higher with IM (confirmed with bloodwork) but the difference was very minimal. I am currently running IM for 2 reasons: 1) I can run more volume. With subQ most people will say that .25mL is the max and my 150Test/100Deca protocol would be kind of tough to do SubQ unless I was pinning frequently, atleast at the concentration of compounds I have. & 2) I have a little fear of the dreaded abscess that may happen with SubQ and once you get used to injecting IM its not really a big deal. Like TX TERROR, I may switch back to subQ though to give my muscles a rest but that would be if I was just running basic test only TRT.

Ive read that subQ could lead to higher E2 conversion but Im not sure how true that is. Best to keep an eye on E2 anyway.

If you want tried and true, then go IM. Its been used for years and you can go higher volume (less injections). If you are on TRT doses, dont mind pinning more often, and dont worry about abscesses, then try out Sub Q.

 

[Jake]

The studies drb conducted at first showed similar T stability then ,not statically acceptable, that the subq levels were a bit more stable. Then after the prgoram went on it basically showed that when subq went into fat it stored a bit longer, and also produced a bit more estrogen. Injection of >.30cc almost always leads to lumping under the skin,some itch,and some redness.

So the bottom line is, let's say you have 200mg cyp and you are on trt. You could do <0.3cc injection@4xweek and get away with it.If you are lean and subq you are fine, if you are chubby watch out for extra Estrogen

 

[44YOGearHead]

As the guys stated above sub q is acceptable in smaller doses, but my understanding is absorption is slower as it must be absorbed thru the fatty layers to the muscle, then to the blood stream. I've pinned peptides IM and sub q, but gear I always go IM, it's just more comfy and requires less sticks hypothetically.

 

[ironlifter36]

Appreciate the feedback guys. Planning on sticking with IM for now as it seems to be working. But, I'm sure as time goes by I will get bored and try new things to spice it up! Thanks again.

 

[Jake]

As the guys stated above sub q is acceptable in smaller doses, but my understanding is absorption is slower as it must be absorbed thru the fatty layers to the muscle, then to the blood stream. I've pinned peptides IM and sub q, but gear I always go IM, it's just more comfy and requires less sticks hypothetically.

That is true to some extent. It does seem to release slower at first, but then it all evens out at some point in time. Like I said if you don't have a lot of fat then it takes off.When injected into fat it sits there longer, but at the same time releases more estrogen. This is fairly straight forward in that the the long esters are very fat soluble, and totally not water soluble. So when big pharm made cyp they always said use a deep IM injection. Meaning put the oil soluble gear into muscle and water where it is NOT soluble. This causes a steady release, that is a bit quicker.

 

[DylanGemelli]

theres clear arguments for both and both have clearly shown to be effective... i know personally, im not doing any sub q injections with any of my gear, only peptides and things of that nature but thats just me... im not saying that IM is bad in any way, im simply telling you what my personal preference is and i would not do IM at all on mine..

 

[zeke]

If anyone has noticed..you can easily sub cu water based things. HGH, B12 etc. I used to insulin pin 1cc of b12 in 3 seconds and no lumps,no nothing. Oil based under my skin just does not work for me. I would much rather deep IM.

 

[Gymjunkie38]

The studies drb conducted at first showed similar T stability then ,not statically acceptable, that the subq levels were a bit more stable. Then after the prgoram went on it basically showed that when subq went into fat it stored a bit longer, and also produced a bit more estrogen. Injection of >.30cc almost always leads to lumping under the skin,some itch,and some redness.

So the bottom line is, let's say you have 200mg cyp and you are on trt. You could do <0.3cc injection@4xweek and get away with it.If you are lean and subq you are fine, if you are chubby watch out for extra Estrogen

On the other hand if you are lean your going too have a noticeable oil bubble under your skin no thanks IM for me

 

[Jake]

On the other hand if you are lean your going too have a noticeable oil bubble under your skin no thanks IM for me

Zeke tried it once.You can see that his navel is the only place where he has some fat, but if he pins anywhere else,it becomes the size of a quarter.
It is kind of like putting sugar into hot tea. The sugar totally dissovles, it is totally soluble in hot water. A fatty ester of test is fat so it will totally become part of the fat. The release is slowed up, but during the slowing process estrogen gets released. Lean guys just cannot do it.I am talking like zeke and dylan...those 4% guys.

If you add sand to the glass of water it falls to the bottom.Sand is not soluble in water. Fatty esters are not soluble in the muscle and water areas. It is way easier to get the sand out of the hot water than it is to get the sugar out of hot water. Plus we have to keep in mind that subq is for trt...not cycles.
Stick to the tried and true ...deep IM.

 

[ironlifter36]

Thanks for all the information, all good to know.