Wanted to get people's opinion on me and my wife's situation as we are trying to start a family. I was on TRT for about 2 years where I learned I was virtually not creating sperm anymore. I was 31 at the time when I started TRT, and am now 34. I started taking Clomid and HCG for about 6-8 months (Clomid 50mg EOD, HCG 10,000 IU/week). This got my levels up to 6-7 million and was getting frustrated at one fertility clinic that wanted to freeze my sperm and start the process of IVF/IUI. Needless to say I wanted to go for a 2nd opinion to a doctor that wants to have patients achieve pregnancy the natural route and find the underlying causes. I went ahead and started using HMG shots, 75 IU EOD for about 2-3 months along with continuing HCG and Clomid regimen. Towards the time of my semen analysis last September I was taking 75 IU every day for about 6-7 days. Once the results came back I was thrilled that my number reached 34 million and I felt it had to be the HMG. The fertility doctor (we are currently seeing) said he never had a patient not respond to HCG and Clomid so wanted me off HMG to see if my number would stay up. It's been about 5 months since I took the HMG and my results just came back from a semen analysis, my number dropped dramatically back down to 6.8 million. I had a hunch this was going to happen but am curious as to why. I've had doctors in the past draw blood from me when just taking HCG and my LH was still down to 0, even had a doctor claim I was still taking testosterone when I had been off for close to 4 months. The current doctor wants me to get a 2nd opinion from a urologist but I've read where HMG is very unique and cannot be replaced by Clomid & HCG in some cases. My pituitary must be really messed up or something. I hope I respond back to HMG again. Stuff is expensive but the kicker in my case. Anybody else ever have a similar experience? My wife may have surgery for possible endometriosis so this is a rough time right now for us but we are trying to stay resolute as best as possible.
Fertility Dr. Visit: Not Responding to HCG and Clomid
- Thread starter hardtoget
- Start date
the hmg is the key here... hcg alone is NOT going to do it... i learned that years ago... i am starting the same protocol with HMG, HCG and clomid... if you take away the hmg, good luck to you as you already know... hmg is THE KEY to it...
Any particular reason why most doctors are unfamiliar with the reasoning behind this 'D'? Some people think Clomid is a backwards way of getting around the issue but neither Clomid nor HCG do anything for FSH. Why attack the problem by trying to increase LH and not go directly at FSH?
i cant speak for doctors bro... how would i know on that? improper education? i know some doctors that know about hmg very very well at fertility clinics... i think its just a lack of education on the subject... OR a motive like money for example
Hey Hardtoget,
I thought I would share my experience on what has helped me personally and one of my closest friends. Before I post keep in mind while I do have pharmacological experience I am not a Dr and this is just what I have seen in the small circle. Also, I want to say I don't post on forums, but with all the info I've gathered from this forum, I thought It would be only right to post about my experience, thinking it just might help.
Also, if this is considered helpful, I can make a standalone post going into more detail.
Several years ago, my wife and I had an extremely tragic event take place (loss of an infant child). After this event, I wasn't able to work or do much of anything, I was just depressed. Watching such an event really is something you never want to be part of.
Workout wise,I've worked out and used gear off and on for 20 years but in this case I hadn't used anything for over a year before we conceived our first. After that and close to a year later we decided to try to once again expand the family.
When it came time for me to get tested, I had ZERO sperm. Let me say that again ZERO. My T levels were always low-ish and this time was no different, however my T levels were not so low that I would have ZERO sperm.. I reached out to some friends and came across some published studies on male fertility and options. My research into this found that many clinics were using HCG. HCG can be counter productive in helping gain an advantage in both PCT and FCT (Fertility Cycle Therapy)
What I did find was, several reports on the combination of female fertility medications (SERMS = clomid, tamoxifen etc etc) and IGF-1 RL3. After reading this, I decided to get both of them and since I was getting my sperm checked every month anyway and after 3 months I still had zero sperm, I felt like it couldn't hurt. The reports and published papers seemed to be quite conclusive and enough to convince me this route of clomid and IGF would help.
So I started my FCT
After month 1 I saw the first report of sperm. = 9 million - 60% active of the 60% active 50% were the strongest swimmers or best chance to help conceive .
After month 2 I saw the report of sperm. = 21 million - 70% active of the 70% active 60% were the strongest swimmers or best chance to help conceive
After month 3 I saw the report of sperm. = 45 million - 80% active of the 80% active 80% were the strongest swimmers or best chance to help conceive
Needless to say we didn't need to do a 4th month and we have a healthy 9 month old boy.
Story Two - is a Very Very Very close friend of mine. Almost what you would call that extended cousin or brother but you're not related to them.
My friend came to me and mentioned that his wife and him were trying to conceive a child for the past 16 moths, with no luck. But both his wife and him had issues with sperm and her eggs. I helped her with getting more eggs and better quality eggs (per the clinic) but for this example we will stick to just my male friend and his case.
ok back to the point. My friend had been on 300mg of test for about 3 years and had been off test for the last 14 months. So I suggested he get his sperm checked.
After his first sperm test pre FCT he had less than 400,000 and almost non of them were active.
month 1 we saw the report of sperm. = less than 400,000 - 5% active of the 5% active 0% were the strongest swimmers or best chance to help conceive
So we started FCT
After month 1 we saw the first report of sperm. = 3 million - 40% active of the 40% active 50% were the strongest swimmers or best chance to help conceive
After month 2 we saw the first report of sperm. = 12 million - 40% active of the 40% active 60% were the strongest swimmers or best chance to help conceive
After month 3 we saw the first report of sperm. = 19 million - 70% active of the 70% active 60% were the strongest swimmers or best chance to help conceive
After month 4 we saw the first report of sperm. = 29 million - 70% active of the 70% active 70% were the strongest swimmers or best chance to help conceive
After month 5 we saw the first report of sperm. = 59 million - 78% active of the 78% active 70% were the strongest swimmers or best chance to help conceive
After 6 months of him and his wife on FCT they had a healthy boy. While I can't guarantee you can have a boy or guarantee this will work for you. I can say it worked for my friend and myself with actual lab testing.
Dose wise we both used what was found in the study to have the best results that's 4micro grams of IGF and 50mg of clomid. Long term, again, I'm not a Dr and I don't know how long you can run clomid for. I believe IGF is good for long term use in low doses.
I don't know if this is what you were looking for but, If you have any questions I would be happy to offer up as much help as I can.
I thought I would share my experience on what has helped me personally and one of my closest friends. Before I post keep in mind while I do have pharmacological experience I am not a Dr and this is just what I have seen in the small circle. Also, I want to say I don't post on forums, but with all the info I've gathered from this forum, I thought It would be only right to post about my experience, thinking it just might help.
Also, if this is considered helpful, I can make a standalone post going into more detail.
Several years ago, my wife and I had an extremely tragic event take place (loss of an infant child). After this event, I wasn't able to work or do much of anything, I was just depressed. Watching such an event really is something you never want to be part of.
Workout wise,I've worked out and used gear off and on for 20 years but in this case I hadn't used anything for over a year before we conceived our first. After that and close to a year later we decided to try to once again expand the family.
When it came time for me to get tested, I had ZERO sperm. Let me say that again ZERO. My T levels were always low-ish and this time was no different, however my T levels were not so low that I would have ZERO sperm.. I reached out to some friends and came across some published studies on male fertility and options. My research into this found that many clinics were using HCG. HCG can be counter productive in helping gain an advantage in both PCT and FCT (Fertility Cycle Therapy)
What I did find was, several reports on the combination of female fertility medications (SERMS = clomid, tamoxifen etc etc) and IGF-1 RL3. After reading this, I decided to get both of them and since I was getting my sperm checked every month anyway and after 3 months I still had zero sperm, I felt like it couldn't hurt. The reports and published papers seemed to be quite conclusive and enough to convince me this route of clomid and IGF would help.
So I started my FCT
After month 1 I saw the first report of sperm. = 9 million - 60% active of the 60% active 50% were the strongest swimmers or best chance to help conceive .
After month 2 I saw the report of sperm. = 21 million - 70% active of the 70% active 60% were the strongest swimmers or best chance to help conceive
After month 3 I saw the report of sperm. = 45 million - 80% active of the 80% active 80% were the strongest swimmers or best chance to help conceive
Needless to say we didn't need to do a 4th month and we have a healthy 9 month old boy.
Story Two - is a Very Very Very close friend of mine. Almost what you would call that extended cousin or brother but you're not related to them.
My friend came to me and mentioned that his wife and him were trying to conceive a child for the past 16 moths, with no luck. But both his wife and him had issues with sperm and her eggs. I helped her with getting more eggs and better quality eggs (per the clinic) but for this example we will stick to just my male friend and his case.
ok back to the point. My friend had been on 300mg of test for about 3 years and had been off test for the last 14 months. So I suggested he get his sperm checked.
After his first sperm test pre FCT he had less than 400,000 and almost non of them were active.
month 1 we saw the report of sperm. = less than 400,000 - 5% active of the 5% active 0% were the strongest swimmers or best chance to help conceive
So we started FCT
After month 1 we saw the first report of sperm. = 3 million - 40% active of the 40% active 50% were the strongest swimmers or best chance to help conceive
After month 2 we saw the first report of sperm. = 12 million - 40% active of the 40% active 60% were the strongest swimmers or best chance to help conceive
After month 3 we saw the first report of sperm. = 19 million - 70% active of the 70% active 60% were the strongest swimmers or best chance to help conceive
After month 4 we saw the first report of sperm. = 29 million - 70% active of the 70% active 70% were the strongest swimmers or best chance to help conceive
After month 5 we saw the first report of sperm. = 59 million - 78% active of the 78% active 70% were the strongest swimmers or best chance to help conceive
After 6 months of him and his wife on FCT they had a healthy boy. While I can't guarantee you can have a boy or guarantee this will work for you. I can say it worked for my friend and myself with actual lab testing.
Dose wise we both used what was found in the study to have the best results that's 4micro grams of IGF and 50mg of clomid. Long term, again, I'm not a Dr and I don't know how long you can run clomid for. I believe IGF is good for long term use in low doses.
I don't know if this is what you were looking for but, If you have any questions I would be happy to offer up as much help as I can.
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thanks for sharing bro
Dylan said it best that he nor anyone else can speak for Dr.s
Something to add to the conversion and possibly something that might help shed some light on your question. This isn't to say its the answer, its just something to consider.
From a medical malpractice stand point Dr.'s need to be able to justify their actions you see a trend where Dr.s only prescribe treatments based off of other clinical findings. So, if there isn't a lot of research on a particular aspect of something you're Dr isn't going to get a lot of deep understanding behind it. And your going to find a trend where Dr.'s are not wiling to expand outside of their wheelhouse and in most cases you don't want them do. You don't want to be a ginni pig. What can complicate this even more is when you have contrasting studies and that happens a lot of times when the medical community won't agree on the benefits or downsides of a particular treatment.
Dr.'s are not pharmaceutical experts in most cases. dr.'s know what they've been told by the pharmaceutical rep (that guy or gal you see in the office when you go in with the brief case that goes in before you and gives out samples) Between limited research on certain subjects and medical cases being limited in some aspects your going to find wide gaps in the medical field when it comes to almost all kinds of conditions.
Thanks for sharing your expereince and info brother
RickRock thank you as well. It was dylan and yourself that actually brought me to this site. All the great work you guys do and the amount of support you guys have given to the community. I'm honored that I might have been able to give back even a little bit. Not that anyone even really cares but loosing a little one is something that I don't even want to post let alone talk about but again I so so so very much value what you guys have been doing that I thought. Hey maybe I can help.
I'll do what I can to help, again if its a subject that can help others or you guys think it would be helpful I can make a standalone post in case people are searching for such info on the net.
again, thanks guys. I'll try to add what I can and in a few weeks I'll be happy to make a larger post about myself and asking your guys advice.
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