Clean Bulking Diet - Looking for advice or suggestions

[MrChristian]

Greetings all,

I'd like the advice of some of you experienced with diet and nutrition while trying to build size while keeping fat gain to a minimum. The last time I did a bulk I think I made a few mistakes and wound up putting on too much fat in the process. I've got my "cutting" diet and nutrition down to a science, but I'm still struggling with diet planning for a clean bulk. So I'm open to any advice you guys may have on this subject or the plan I've drawn up (below).

First, here is some general info about me and my goals.

Age: 43
BF: 12% ish
Weight: 178 lbs
Years weight training: 5
How often I train: Every day. 1 - 1.5 hours
Body type: Mesomorph primarily with some Ectomorph tendencies
Goals: Recomp mostly. I'd like to build additional size and definition. But I want to keep as lean and shredded as possible along the way. Not looking to be massive.

Mistakes I made last time I did a bulk
- Didn't reverse diet up to new calorie intake. Just jumped from 2000/day to 3400/day suddenly
- Ran my calories at 3400/day. I think this was probably too high
- Ate too many simple carbs. Lots of fruit.
- Started at 15% BF. This wasn't the best idea I ever had. LOL

The basic plan this time
- Reverse diet @ 100 cal per week increase until I get to 3000/day. Then start the bulk at that point.
- Run macros at 30% protein / 50% carbs / 20% fats
- Only eat simple carbs in morning and directly after workout. Otherwise use complex carbs.
- Eat 1.5g protein per lb of body weight
- No carbs after 7pm
- Bulk for about 2 months and then switch to cutting diet to shed any extra fat

The gory details

This is how much of a geek I am. And yes, I will eat the exact same thing every damn day without exception. People make fun of me.

 

[BigBusiness]

For more of a clean bulk I would concentrate on getting more protien. Maybe 300gms +. I would still drop your fat and carbs slightly. Putting together 5 meals with 50+gms protien makes all the differance.

 

[MrChristian]

For more of a clean bulk I would concentrate on getting more protien. Maybe 300gms +. I would still drop your fat and carbs slightly. Putting together 5 meals with 50+gms protien makes all the differance.

Okay awesome. More protein, less carbs & fat. I can certainly do that. Thanks!

 

[RickRock]

Your fat actually doesn't look bad at all for lean bulking. I think that's fine, but I agree with Achilles on increasing protein and dropping the carbs a bit. Basically trade out some of your carbs for equal amount of protein. Carbs and protein are both equal at 4 calories per gram anyways so just make the adjustment accordingly. Your total calories look good, but the macro,ratio could improve a little with those changes. I think the higher carbs is why you put on fat in the past.

 

[MrChristian]

Your fat actually doesn't look bad at all for lean bulking. I think that's fine, but I agree with Achilles on increasing protein and dropping the carbs a bit. Basically trade out some of your carbs for equal amount of protein. Carbs and protein are both equal at 4 calories per gram anyways so just make the adjustment accordingly. Your total calories look good, but the macro,ratio could improve a little with those changes. I think the higher carbs is why you put on fat in the past.

Fantastic. For some reason I was under the impression that I needed higher carbs to bulk. See, this is the stuff I needed to learn. Do you think 40% protein, 40% carbs, 20% fats would still be a bit high on the carbs? Or I could do 50/30/20.

Obviously, I'll be monitoring things carefully from week to week. So if I start gaining fat too quickly, I can dial down the carbs further early on if necessary.

 

[PHURIOUS]

It depnends on the bulking u want to do. Dirty bulking is effective but then requires u to cut the dirt. Or u can clean bulk with some healthy fats and a little less carbs. And up ur protein.


PHURIOUS PHARMA

 

[MrChristian]

It depnends on the bulking u want to do. Dirty bulking is effective but then requires u to cut the dirt. Or u can clean bulk with some healthy fats and a little less carbs. And up ur protein.


PHURIOUS PHARMA

I'm definitely looking to clean bulk. I don't care if the results come more slowly, as long as I'm not stacking on a bunch of fat in the process.

 

[RickRock]

Re: RE: Re: Clean Bulking Diet - Looking for advice or suggestions

Your fat actually doesn't look bad at all for lean bulking. I think that's fine, but I agree with Achilles on increasing protein and dropping the carbs a bit. Basically trade out some of your carbs for equal amount of protein. Carbs and protein are both equal at 4 calories per gram anyways so just make the adjustment accordingly. Your total calories look good, but the macro,ratio could improve a little with those changes. I think the higher carbs is why you put on fat in the past.

Fantastic. For some reason I was under the impression that I needed higher carbs to bulk. See, this is the stuff I needed to learn. Do you think 40% protein, 40% carbs, 20% fats would still be a bit high on the carbs? Or I could do 50/30/20.

Obviously, I'll be monitoring things carefully from week to week. So if I start gaining fat too quickly, I can dial down the carbs further early on if necessary.

Actually I think 40/40/20 is a perfect ratio for lean bulking.

The misconception that you need excessive amounts of carbs to bulk comes from the fact that carbs add weight to you and make the scale move. That is not your goal. You want to add muscle, and not fat from what you are saying, so I would recommend eating adequate amounts of carbs and not more than you need for slow consistent growth.

 

[drb_iac]

I would drop the malto,dex, bread and powders. Don't find any of that contrived sutff ever did anything.Plus it is just better to chew. I would add more eggs, a little lean beef, some hard cheese, various nut butters,some diary.That would always put it on for me. I am only talking 5-10lbs. To cut it was drop the cheese,nut butters and diary. For carbs it is only bulgur wheat, millet,oats quinoa,whole barely. As for ratios get the 2 grams of protein per pound first, and then % down your carbs and fats. For you at 178lbs then 350-400 grams protein..not from powder. Don't worry about eating the same thing everyday...I still do that.

 

[MrChristian]

I would drop the malto,dex, bread and powders. Don't find any of that contrived sutff ever did anything.Plus it is just better to chew. I would add more eggs, a little lean beef, some hard cheese, various nut butters,some diary.That would always put it on for me. I am only talking 5-10lbs. To cut it was drop the cheese,nut butters and diary. For carbs it is only bulgur wheat, millet,oats quinoa,whole barely. As for ratios get the 2 grams of protein per pound first, and then % down your carbs and fats. For you at 178lbs then 350-400 grams protein..not from powder. Don't worry about eating the same thing everyday...I still do that.

Thanks! I must admit, I rely heavily on protein powders because of my crazy work/life schedule. It's just faster and easier than constantly eating meat/fish all day. But what you're saying makes perfect sense. I don't think I can go 100% off the powders just yet, but I will work on reducing how much I rely on it. Everything in steps.

Okay, 2g protein per lb. That's certainly achievable. I'm working on making these modifications to my plan now. You guys are great. Thanks all!

 

[drb_iac]

I would drop the malto,dex, bread and powders. Don't find any of that contrived sutff ever did anything.Plus it is just better to chew. I would add more eggs, a little lean beef, some hard cheese, various nut butters,some diary.That would always put it on for me. I am only talking 5-10lbs. To cut it was drop the cheese,nut butters and diary. For carbs it is only bulgur wheat, millet,oats quinoa,whole barely. As for ratios get the 2 grams of protein per pound first, and then % down your carbs and fats. For you at 178lbs then 350-400 grams protein..not from powder. Don't worry about eating the same thing everyday...I still do that.

Thanks! I must admit, I rely heavily on protein powders because of my crazy work/life schedule. It's just faster and easier than constantly eating meat/fish all day. But what you're saying makes perfect sense. I don't think I can go 100% off the powders just yet, but I will work on reducing how much I rely on it. Everything in steps.

Okay, 2g protein per lb. That's certainly achievable. I'm working on making these modifications to my plan now. You guys are great. Thanks all!

I know the rush feeling. I just recently dumped a quart of eggwhite with a quart of grapefruit juice and took that through out the day from 6am to 3pm. The powders and bars are contrive and I think of them as any other contrived crap i.e breakfast cerals, snacks...potato chips are not potatoes to me. I dont mind a max of 2 scoops of half whey/caesin, but not more than that. I carry cans of tuna and jars of salsa, sometimes the tuna in a pouch.The malto and th dex are not waht you want as carbs.Powder up some oatmeal in a coffee grinder and add that to your powder. I am going to share 2 secrets with you. Use metamucil and ground flax powder when cutting. They bulk up so much in your belly and add zero calories, while thickening the hell out of your shake.

 

[RickRock]

I would drop the malto,dex, bread and powders. Don't find any of that contrived sutff ever did anything.Plus it is just better to chew. I would add more eggs, a little lean beef, some hard cheese, various nut butters,some diary.That would always put it on for me. I am only talking 5-10lbs. To cut it was drop the cheese,nut butters and diary. For carbs it is only bulgur wheat, millet,oats quinoa,whole barely. As for ratios get the 2 grams of protein per pound first, and then % down your carbs and fats. For you at 178lbs then 350-400 grams protein..not from powder. Don't worry about eating the same thing everyday...I still do that.

Thanks! I must admit, I rely heavily on protein powders because of my crazy work/life schedule. It's just faster and easier than constantly eating meat/fish all day. But what you're saying makes perfect sense. I don't think I can go 100% off the powders just yet, but I will work on reducing how much I rely on it. Everything in steps.

Okay, 2g protein per lb. That's certainly achievable. I'm working on making these modifications to my plan now. You guys are great. Thanks all!

Yeh man just work on cutting the shakes down to a minimum. Shakes and powders should be a maximum of 30% of your protein intake in my opinion, and preferably much less

 

[MrChristian]

[quote="drb_iac":ri70311g]I would drop the malto,dex, bread and powders. Don't find any of that contrived sutff ever did anything.Plus it is just better to chew. I would add more eggs, a little lean beef, some hard cheese, various nut butters,some diary.That would always put it on for me. I am only talking 5-10lbs. To cut it was drop the cheese,nut butters and diary. For carbs it is only bulgur wheat, millet,oats quinoa,whole barely. As for ratios get the 2 grams of protein per pound first, and then % down your carbs and fats. For you at 178lbs then 350-400 grams protein..not from powder. Don't worry about eating the same thing everyday...I still do that.

Thanks! I must admit, I rely heavily on protein powders because of my crazy work/life schedule. It's just faster and easier than constantly eating meat/fish all day. But what you're saying makes perfect sense. I don't think I can go 100% off the powders just yet, but I will work on reducing how much I rely on it. Everything in steps.

Okay, 2g protein per lb. That's certainly achievable. I'm working on making these modifications to my plan now. You guys are great. Thanks all!

I know the rush feeling. I just recently dumped a quart of eggwhite with a quart of grapefruit juice and took that through out the day from 6am to 3pm. The powders and bars are contrive and I think of them as any other contrived crap i.e breakfast cerals, snacks...potato chips are not potatoes to me. I dont mind a max of 2 scoops of half whey/caesin, but not more than that. I carry cans of tuna and jars of salsa, sometimes the tuna in a pouch.The malto and th dex are not waht you want as carbs.Powder up some oatmeal in a coffee grinder and add that to your powder. I am going to share 2 secrets with you. Use metamucil and ground flax powder when cutting. They bulk up so much in your belly and add zero calories, while thickening the hell out of your shake.[/quote:ri70311g]

Okay, I'm getting rid of the malto and the dex. And I'm working on reducing dependency on protein powders overall. Canned tuna is a great idea! But do they make low sodium canned tuna? I generally avoid canned food like the plague because it's typically marinated in salt. I'll check the stores to see if there's a low sodium option.

 

[MrChristian]

I would drop the malto,dex, bread and powders. Don't find any of that contrived sutff ever did anything.Plus it is just better to chew. I would add more eggs, a little lean beef, some hard cheese, various nut butters,some diary.That would always put it on for me. I am only talking 5-10lbs. To cut it was drop the cheese,nut butters and diary. For carbs it is only bulgur wheat, millet,oats quinoa,whole barely. As for ratios get the 2 grams of protein per pound first, and then % down your carbs and fats. For you at 178lbs then 350-400 grams protein..not from powder. Don't worry about eating the same thing everyday...I still do that.

Thanks! I must admit, I rely heavily on protein powders because of my crazy work/life schedule. It's just faster and easier than constantly eating meat/fish all day. But what you're saying makes perfect sense. I don't think I can go 100% off the powders just yet, but I will work on reducing how much I rely on it. Everything in steps.

Okay, 2g protein per lb. That's certainly achievable. I'm working on making these modifications to my plan now. You guys are great. Thanks all!

Yeh man just work on cutting the shakes down to a minimum. Shakes and powders should be a maximum of 30% of your protein intake in my opinion, and preferably much less

Got it. Reworking my plan now. Thanks Rick!

 

[RickRock]

[quote="drb_iac":2184tu6o]I would drop the malto,dex, bread and powders. Don't find any of that contrived sutff ever did anything.Plus it is just better to chew. I would add more eggs, a little lean beef, some hard cheese, various nut butters,some diary.That would always put it on for me. I am only talking 5-10lbs. To cut it was drop the cheese,nut butters and diary. For carbs it is only bulgur wheat, millet,oats quinoa,whole barely. As for ratios get the 2 grams of protein per pound first, and then % down your carbs and fats. For you at 178lbs then 350-400 grams protein..not from powder. Don't worry about eating the same thing everyday...I still do that.

Thanks! I must admit, I rely heavily on protein powders because of my crazy work/life schedule. It's just faster and easier than constantly eating meat/fish all day. But what you're saying makes perfect sense. I don't think I can go 100% off the powders just yet, but I will work on reducing how much I rely on it. Everything in steps.

Okay, 2g protein per lb. That's certainly achievable. I'm working on making these modifications to my plan now. You guys are great. Thanks all!

I know the rush feeling. I just recently dumped a quart of eggwhite with a quart of grapefruit juice and took that through out the day from 6am to 3pm. The powders and bars are contrive and I think of them as any other contrived crap i.e breakfast cerals, snacks...potato chips are not potatoes to me. I dont mind a max of 2 scoops of half whey/caesin, but not more than that. I carry cans of tuna and jars of salsa, sometimes the tuna in a pouch.The malto and th dex are not waht you want as carbs.Powder up some oatmeal in a coffee grinder and add that to your powder. I am going to share 2 secrets with you. Use metamucil and ground flax powder when cutting. They bulk up so much in your belly and add zero calories, while thickening the hell out of your shake.

Okay, I'm getting rid of the malto and the dex. And I'm working on reducing dependency on protein powders overall. Canned tuna is a great idea! But do they make low sodium canned tuna? I generally avoid canned food like the plague because it's typically marinated in salt. I'll check the stores to see if there's a low sodium option.[/quote:2184tu6o]


Yes they do have low sodium Tuna available. I'm not a big fan of Tuna, but I know Dylan is and he always uses the low sodium kind

 

[MrChristian]

Okay, here's my revised diet plan based on everyone's great feedback. Far less dependency on protein powders and more "real food". Also adjusted macros to 40/40/20 as suggested. My protein amount might still be a tad low @ 1.7g per lb of body weight, so I'm looking at raising that somehow.

 

[drb_iac]

After three months with your new menu let us know how it is going.I have a feeling at that point you are going to have to tweak some more. Stay with and no cheats for at least 3 months

 

[Guest]

Man I think that looks damn good, only thing I'd personally sub is that turkey meatloaf but shit maybe it's extremely satisfying

 

[MrChristian]

Man I think that looks damn good, only thing I'd personally sub is that turkey meatloaf but shit maybe it's extremely satisfying

Turkey meatloaf is actually not too bad. And it's quite yummy. Here's how I make it.

2 pounds lean ground turkey
1 cup all natural mild salsa
1 cup 100% whole wheat bread crumbs
2 large eggs, lightly beaten
3 cloves garlic, finely chopped
1 teaspoon sea salt
Ground black pepper (to taste)

 

[MrChristian]

After three months with your new menu let us know how it is going.I have a feeling at that point you are going to have to tweak some more. Stay with and no cheats for at least 3 months

Will do Drb! I was actually thinking of doing this for 2 months and then doing 1 month of cutting to try to shed any excess fat. Then after that go into maintenance diet during PCT. I'm trying to time all of this with my first cycle. If you think that's a bad plan, I'd love to hear feedback.