Cardarine Expectations too high?

[Sarkothenta]

Hey everyone. New here and this is my first post. I just recently decided to give SARMS a try and although Cardarine isn't technically a SARM, I'm wondering if my expectations are too high for this one, or if maybe I just have bad stuff. First, my background: I've been lifting for about 20 years with a few breaks here and there. I've got a good base of muscle, but I'm also sitting at about 20% bodyfat according to my bioelectric impedance device - most people ask me if I'm a power lifter, lol. Cool, but not the physique I'm going for.

Anyway, I bought a decent SARM supply that I was going to split into 2 separate stacks. For my first run I started with the GW @ 10mg/day and on day 20 I bumped that up to 20mg/day plus 12.5mg Ostarine a day. That will run for about 9-10 weeks. I have some RAD140 too but I wasn't sure if running all 3 would be liver smart. But my concern is that I've been taking the GW for 28 days now, and I'm not sure it's really doing anything for fat loss. I have dropped about a quarter inch off my waist and just under 1 percent BF, but I can do that in a month just with diet. I was expecting the Cardarine to accelerate that by quite a bit. Especially given that I've cranked up my training volume. So could I just be a "nonresponder?" Or am I expecting too much from it? Should I just give it more time into the depth of the Cardarine/Ostarine stack? Or maybe I got bogus stuff?

I'm not sure what the policy on mentioning brand names here is, but just to put it out here for full disclosure, I bought from WickedLabz. But I didn't just pick them out of a hat. They had a greater ratio of good reviews than not, and they post COAs for all of their products, plus I really wanted capsules. But to go a step further, before purchasing I contacted S&N labs (now Eurofins labs), who performed the analysis on the COA, and I actually sent them the Cardarine COA to verify that it was authentic. They confirmed that it was and matches their records. So by all accounts, the WL stuff should be legit. I sure hope it is, because I have 12 weeks worth of stenobolic and rad140 waiting after I finish the cardarine/ostarine stack.

So that leaves me thinking that maybe I just have too high of expectations or that maybe I haven't given it enough time. What are your thoughts?

 

[DylanGemelli]

yes, you have a very very bad source... they have had so many issues that people have brought to my attention over time and thats why you dont see them talked about often anymore... most people do have out of line expectations on anything they run but the source you are using is known to be NOT SO GOOD...

 

[Sarkothenta]

yes, you have a very very bad source... they have had so many issues that people have brought to my attention over time and thats why you dont see them talked about often anymore... most people do have out of line expectations on anything they run but the source you are using is known to be NOT SO GOOD...

Well crap, that sucks. It bugs me because I thought I was doing due diligence finding a company with good reviews and valid COAs that show good quality/purity, and then me even taking the extra step to authenticate the COA directly with the processing lab. I'm not sure what else I could've done to verify I was getting quality stuff.

What issues with WL have been the main problem? Is it under-dosing, or just completely absent ingredients? Or is it something worse like they've been caught subbing prohormones instead of the SARMs?

Thanks for the reply.

 

[Bierman]

Well crap, that sucks. It bugs me because I thought I was doing due diligence finding a company with good reviews and valid COAs that show good quality/purity, and then me even taking the extra step to authenticate the COA directly with the processing lab. I'm not sure what else I could've done to verify I was getting quality stuff.

What issues with WL have been the main problem? Is it under-dosing, or just completely absent ingredients? Or is it something worse like they've been caught subbing prohormones instead of the SARMs?

Thanks for the reply.

Listen man, I got my first GW from the wrong source and thought “ this crap is useless”. A couple years later I found this website and Dylan turned me towards Sarms4sale, fricken huge difference! You truly feel it working(in my case) after about 3 days. My cardio sessions were crazy. No bs!

 

[Sarkothenta]

Listen man, I got my first GW from the wrong source and thought “ this crap is useless”. A couple years later I found this website and Dylan turned me towards Sarms4sale, fricken huge difference! You truly feel it working(in my case) after about 3 days. My cardio sessions were crazy. No bs!

I'm still wondering what issues there are with WL. They checked all the boxes for a quality source. And I will admit, my workout sessions this past month have been much more intense and just with constant gas in the tank like I could keep going all day. Plus I've beaten my time on my weekly 4 mile run every week, like I'm getting faster and faster. That's not necessarily what I was looking for though. My issue is that I'm not seeing the bodyfat "melt off" like I kept reading would happen with GW ... even with a 15-20% caloric deficit.

I'm not familiar with Sarms4sale, but they look good from a brief look over. Good reviews. But WL had good reviews too. Good anecdotal testimonials. But WL had good anecdotal testimonials too. COAs for all the products. But WL has COAs for all their products. So it's still tough to know which is best because you can find a cheerleader for every company. It's just a little frustrating. I almost bought from Chemyo but I don't know if it would've been better.

I'm hoping with some more digging I can find out exactly what the issues with WL are, with some sort of evidence and not just assertions. I'd hate the throw out 200 bucks worth of stuff just based on claims they're no good. It'd be awesome to find some empirical evidence that they under-dose, or sub other things or are in some way skimping and scamming. In the meantime I'll definitely consider ordering the GW powder from Sarms4sale once I authenticate the COA. It seems a lot of folks get the most bang for their buck and good results from doing the old 'toss and wash' with the powder. I still have my microgram scale and 10mg scoops, so that should be a good way to go.

Thanks for the feedback.

 

[Bierman]

I'm still wondering what issues there are with WL. They checked all the boxes for a quality source. And I will admit, my workout sessions this past month have been much more intense and just with constant gas in the tank like I could keep going all day. Plus I've beaten my time on my weekly 4 mile run every week, like I'm getting faster and faster. That's not necessarily what I was looking for though. My issue is that I'm not seeing the bodyfat "melt off" like I kept reading would happen with GW ... even with a 15-20% caloric deficit.

I'm not familiar with Sarms4sale, but they look good from a brief look over. Good reviews. But WL had good reviews too. Good anecdotal testimonials. But WL had good anecdotal testimonials too. COAs for all the products. But WL has COAs for all their products. So it's still tough to know which is best because you can find a cheerleader for every company. It's just a little frustrating. I almost bought from Chemyo but I don't know if it would've been better.

I'm hoping with some more digging I can find out exactly what the issues with WL are, with some sort of evidence and not just assertions. I'd hate the throw out 200 bucks worth of stuff just based on claims they're no good. It'd be awesome to find some empirical evidence that they under-dose, or sub other things or are in some way skimping and scamming. In the meantime I'll definitely consider ordering the GW powder from Sarms4sale once I authenticate the COA. It seems a lot of folks get the most bang for their buck and good results from doing the old 'toss and wash' with the powder. I still have my microgram scale and 10mg scoops, so that should be a good way to go.

Thanks for the feedback.

 

[Bierman]

I feel your struggle man. Hate wasting money. I only wanted to shed about 10 lbs and had no problem once on the right product. Then again, like you said, diet is such a big part of it. Idk, keep us posted on your findings.

 

[DylanGemelli]

Well crap, that sucks. It bugs me because I thought I was doing due diligence finding a company with good reviews and valid COAs that show good quality/purity, and then me even taking the extra step to authenticate the COA directly with the processing lab. I'm not sure what else I could've done to verify I was getting quality stuff.

What issues with WL have been the main problem? Is it under-dosing, or just completely absent ingredients? Or is it something worse like they've been caught subbing prohormones instead of the SARMs?

Thanks for the reply.

so a lot of insight i get are from emails from people either asking for help, filling me in, sharing crazy bloodwork etc.. you name it or think it, chances are pretty damn high ive seen it... good, bad and ugly.. one thing thats extremely easy to do is getting a pure type of raw, sending it in for a coa and then posting it.. ANYONE can do that... so thats EASILY refutable... you cant hide bad products, bad customer service and bad experiences.. with them, ive been told many types of things but the two most common have been under dosing (which is what ive seen the most) but then others have shown bloodwork that would indicate they are certainly not sarms... regardless, a bait and switch is very very common

 

[Sarkothenta]

so a lot of insight i get are from emails from people either asking for help, filling me in, sharing crazy bloodwork etc.. you name it or think it, chances are pretty damn high ive seen it... good, bad and ugly.. one thing thats extremely easy to do is getting a pure type of raw, sending it in for a coa and then posting it.. ANYONE can do that... so thats EASILY refutable... you cant hide bad products, bad customer service and bad experiences.. with them, ive been told many types of things but the two most common have been under dosing (which is what ive seen the most) but then others have shown bloodwork that would indicate they are certainly not sarms... regardless, a bait and switch is very very common

Man that definitely makes me want to go have some labs done real quick and make sure nothing is out of whack. I'm not sure if I should continue taking this stuff or not. The increased work capacity I feel from it could just be placebo effect, especially since there's no noticeable major increase in fat loss. If it's just under-dosed there's no harm finishing it (except to my wallet), but if it's something else altogether I don't want to cause harm.

That bait-n-switch COA trick is pretty clever ... and it sucks. Didn't think of that. It even explains how WL can update the COAs a couple of times a year. All they'd have to do is just keep the small source of pure raw and send a little in each time for an updated COA. That's dirty if that's what they're doing.

It looks like I'll probably just set aside the WL stuff for now and give the GW powder from either Sarms.forsale or Chemyo a try. Although I'm debating on if SR9009 might be better than GW for my recomp goals right now. I'm guessing since Sarms.forsale is in your sig that it's your personal favorite, so I'll definitely look into them more and see how that looks. I know Chemyo seems to be recommended just about everywhere, so if sarms.forsale is a good one too, at least there's a few better options than WL.

Thanks for all the info.

 

[DylanGemelli]

Man that definitely makes me want to go have some labs done real quick and make sure nothing is out of whack. I'm not sure if I should continue taking this stuff or not. The increased work capacity I feel from it could just be placebo effect, especially since there's no noticeable major increase in fat loss. If it's just under-dosed there's no harm finishing it (except to my wallet), but if it's something else altogether I don't want to cause harm.

That bait-n-switch COA trick is pretty clever ... and it sucks. Didn't think of that. It even explains how WL can update the COAs a couple of times a year. All they'd have to do is just keep the small source of pure raw and send a little in each time for an updated COA. That's dirty if that's what they're doing.

It looks like I'll probably just set aside the WL stuff for now and give the GW powder from either Sarms.forsale or Chemyo a try. Although I'm debating on if SR9009 might be better than GW for my recomp goals right now. I'm guessing since Sarms.forsale is in your sig that it's your personal favorite, so I'll definitely look into them more and see how that looks. I know Chemyo seems to be recommended just about everywhere, so if sarms.forsale is a good one too, at least there's a few better options than WL.

Thanks for all the info.

Heres the problem with chemyo and this is fact...

im not going to sit on here and say they are fake because thats pretty difficult to prove.. what i can tell you is they have done some of the most monopolizing shady marketing, on top of having several different sublet companies to corner the market, where you would have no idea that there are also theirs... they have such deep pockets and have MANY review sites done with extremely deep SEO to put these sites at the fore front of EVERY search out there on google... these review sites are NOT real whatsoever and to have to put up so many fake review sites screams shade... these sites randomly pop up and they even have gone to lengths of putting out syndicated publications that are paid for to go this route...

im all about marketing and paying for it but to go to these lengths and extents, with so many sites that are NOT authentic is an issue in my book... its not something i would trust... its a very old trick that goes in many industries but the places with the pocket books always get ahead, even with inferior products...

granted, im privy to A LOT of inside information on these places because of the relationships ive made over many years but these are facts... im not going to throw shade at companies i dont use personally unless there is an abundance of user feedback screaming about quality... the things i laid out though are very accurate and easily understood if you go in depth or know people in the IT field that can look into it...



You need to watch my video on sarms companies...

 

[Sarkothenta]

Heres the problem with chemyo and this is fact...

im not going to sit on here and say they are fake because thats pretty difficult to prove.. what i can tell you is they have done some of the most monopolizing shady marketing, on top of having several different sublet companies to corner the market, where you would have no idea that there are also theirs... they have such deep pockets and have MANY review sites done with extremely deep SEO to put these sites at the fore front of EVERY search out there on google... these review sites are NOT real whatsoever and to have to put up so many fake review sites screams shade... these sites randomly pop up and they even have gone to lengths of putting out syndicated publications that are paid for to go this route...

im all about marketing and paying for it but to go to these lengths and extents, with so many sites that are NOT authentic is an issue in my book... its not something i would trust... its a very old trick that goes in many industries but the places with the pocket books always get ahead, even with inferior products...

granted, im privy to A LOT of inside information on these places because of the relationships ive made over many years but these are facts... im not going to throw shade at companies i dont use personally unless there is an abundance of user feedback screaming about quality... the things i laid out though are very accurate and easily understood if you go in depth or know people in the IT field that can look into it...



You need to watch my video on sarms companies...

I definitely appreciate all the info. Honestly it seems like the more I learn about the sarm world, the worse it sounds, lol. What a cluster. I'm starting to wonder if I should just go back to the tried and true ECA stack + low carb for cutting and get my doc to increase my TRT to preserve LBM. Those are easy to get, cheap, always legit, and I've cut successfully with the ECA stack numerous times without a single issue.

But again, I really appreciate your time and info. It definitely helps. I guess for now I'll back up and reassess, try to learn some more, and keep those few good sarm suppliers in my back pocket. I'm definitely finding a lot of info on this site, so I'm glad to be here. Wish I would've found it sooner.

Thanks Dylan.

 

[Fella Finn]

Unfortunately, there has been an abundance of issues over many years as SARMS got to be more mainstream but there are companies out there that can be trusted, its just sifting through all of the nonsense. It is really beneficial to have communities like here where you can see real time user feedback. Dylan has been a consummate professional in the industry for so many years and I always turn to him for guidance

 

[Tazz]

Only use our forum approved sponsored sources like sarms.forsale and umbrella labs!

 

[Bierman]

The monitors and Dylan have you covered. I’m simply a consumer of their recommended sources. I’ve used Sarms4sale and now I’m currently trying Umbrella labs. I used Rad, GW, S4 and Sr9009 from S4S. Incredible results! Period. Now, I’m on GW, Rad and ACP105 from Umbrella. They’re packaging, customer service and results so far might slightly edge S4S but it’s close.
Good luck on your journey man. It’s a process but worth it.

 

[Sarkothenta]

Hey everyone, sorry to resurrect this thread, but I kept meaning to come back and post an update. Basically, I'm here to eat my crow for not listening and wanted to share the experience real quick.

So, being stubborn as I am and not wanting to "waste my money" by throwing out the SARMs from the WL source in my original post, I decided to ride it out and finish both stacks, and see what happened. Essentially I ran the "cardarine" throughout 12 weeks and as I tapered off the "ostarine" I began the "rad-140." Why all the air quotes? Well, pretty sure it was all a bait-n-switch like Dylan warned me. Not only did I get just a minimal strength increase, but I really saw no body comp changes the entire time, even with a clean diet. Had a bit of unusual water retention too.

But the labs were the big Red Flag. At the very end of the cycle, I had some labs done, basic CBC, Lipid panel and metabolic with liver enzymes. Well ... my total cholesterol shot through the roof (347!), LDL more than doubled, and my HDL dropped significantly, and both my ALT and AST numbers nearly DOUBLED when they were perfect before. My lipids have always been good, even though right on the border. I've NEVER had chol like that. And the only other time in my life that I ever had elevated ALT/AST, was when I used a bunch of Andro back in the 90s.

I know this doesn't equal proof, but I feel in my gut from those numbers, that that particular supplier is almost certainly selling fake SARMs that are probably full of cheap prohormones and who knows what else. That would certainly explain the aberrant lipid & liver numbers out of nowhere like that. So, long story short ... lesson learned the hard way. Shame on me.

But again, I appreciate all the replies and reassurances for the approved sources here on the isarms forum. I won't make that mistake of buying cheap, fake crap again. But hopefully if anyone else is lured by WL's little BOGO deals, they'll find this story and run the other way.

Cheers!

 

[DylanGemelli]

Hey everyone, sorry to resurrect this thread, but I kept meaning to come back and post an update. Basically, I'm here to eat my crow for not listening and wanted to share the experience real quick.

So, being stubborn as I am and not wanting to "waste my money" by throwing out the SARMs from the WL source in my original post, I decided to ride it out and finish both stacks, and see what happened. Essentially I ran the "cardarine" throughout 12 weeks and as I tapered off the "ostarine" I began the "rad-140." Why all the air quotes? Well, pretty sure it was all a bait-n-switch like Dylan warned me. Not only did I get just a minimal strength increase, but I really saw no body comp changes the entire time, even with a clean diet. Had a bit of unusual water retention too.

But the labs were the big Red Flag. At the very end of the cycle, I had some labs done, basic CBC, Lipid panel and metabolic with liver enzymes. Well ... my total cholesterol shot through the roof (347!), LDL more than doubled, and my HDL dropped significantly, and both my ALT and AST numbers nearly DOUBLED when they were perfect before. My lipids have always been good, even though right on the border. I've NEVER had chol like that. And the only other time in my life that I ever had elevated ALT/AST, was when I used a bunch of Andro back in the 90s.

I know this doesn't equal proof, but I feel in my gut from those numbers, that that particular supplier is almost certainly selling fake SARMs that are probably full of cheap prohormones and who knows what else. That would certainly explain the aberrant lipid & liver numbers out of nowhere like that. So, long story short ... lesson learned the hard way. Shame on me.

But again, I appreciate all the replies and reassurances for the approved sources here on the isarms forum. I won't make that mistake of buying cheap, fake crap again. But hopefully if anyone else is lured by WL's little BOGO deals, they'll find this story and run the other way.

Cheers!

really sorry to hear that but unfortunately im not surprised at all.. i hate that you had to learn the hard way but i always try to take the good from a negative situation.. the good is that now you know, and you wont make the same mistake again and it was a learning experience... i appreciate you not being too proud to share your experience because not only is it helpful to yourself but to many others that read these threads as well as a reference point in the future.. stick around and learn and share experiences etc... thats what the forums are for ! thanks again for posting this